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Thread: Basic Settings on UDS Units and why VCDS fails

  1. #1
    Verified VCDS User hadez16's Avatar
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    Basic Settings on UDS Units and why VCDS fails

    Hi all, Hi Ross-Tech,

    It came to my attention that VCDS is not the best tool when it comes to Basic Settings on modern UDS units.
    Other colleagues do have similar experiences regarding complex basic setting procedures that go beyond "Start lighting basic settings" and "Quit basic lighting settings".

    My understanding is that of course all available options that come with ASAM data will show up in the Basic Settings dropdown dialog because ASAM data predefines what is possible for that unit.

    I cannot think of any Basic Setting procedure that does not work properly for old KWP2000/CAN-only units.

    The common answer when it comes to Basic Settings for UDS is "Use ODIS".

    Due to personal curiosity I did some research on that UDS ASAM topic to get a better understanding of everything.
    I found some interesting slides that show a good comparison between KWP2000 and UDS:

    https://slideplayer.com/slide/2496907/

    There are two slides that illustrate the principle of actuator test on KWP2000 and UDS:



    and



    The main statement is that on UDS units the tester itself has to implement the sequence of any test because it is no more implemented as a routine within the control module.
    This could make sense as the sequence could be improved or changed on the tester side when ASAM data is updated, without having the need to update the control module.

    Is this also adaptable for the Basic Settings topic? Does VCDS lack the needed implementations on the tester side for this?

    I'd like to understand where the difficulties are and why ODIS is the place to be for the most newer basic setting routines like Air Suspension Recalibration on Audi B9 or Magnet Ride Recalibration on Audi 8V and so on...

    Cheers,
    hadez16

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  3. #2
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    Nobody cares but VCDS is useless when it comes to UDS Units and it can only cause unnecessary harm when running Basic Settings + the lack of adaptation guides and procedures you can end up at the dealer very easily.
    Odis is the future I guess, no longer cheap alternative.
    Last edited by Uwe; 10-21-2019 at 01:44 PM.

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64bit View Post
    Nobody cares but VCDS is useless when it comes to UDS Units
    Really? I beg to differ. Plenty of people have done various Basic Settings successfully on UDS control modules. Do we have instructions for every possible Basic Setting in every possible control module? No, not even close. But that doesn't make it "useless". If you think it it is useless, perhaps you should sell your VCDS and find an ODIS forum.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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    Verified VCDS User hadez16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Do we have instructions for every possible Basic Setting in every possible control module? No, not even close.
    That is really something I'd like just to understand. The necessary sequences and stuff for a full support of basic settings are not described in the ASAM dataset?
    If not, that would contradict the whole UDS/ASAM intention for a third party diagnostic tool developer not having the need for reverse engineering anymore....

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadez16 View Post
    That is really something I'd like just to understand. The necessary sequences and stuff for a full support of basic settings are not described in the ASAM dataset?
    No, they are not. The ASAM dataset only defines the functionality available, not how to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hadez16 View Post
    If not, that would contradict the whole UDS/ASAM intention for a third party diagnostic tool developer not having the need for reverse engineering anymore....
    What makes you think it's intended to make life easy for third-party tool developers? IMO, it is not; it's intended to make life easy for the car manufacturers and their suppliers.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  8. #6
    Verified VCDS User hadez16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    No, they are not. The ASAM dataset only defines the functionality available, not how to use it.


    What makes you think it's intended to make life easy for third-party tool developers? IMO, it is not; it's intended to make life easy for the car manufacturers and their suppliers.

    -Uwe-
    Okay, that is something I didn't know.
    It was my very humble knowledge about the topic that the advantages of the whole ODX/ASAM principle reaches also to the diagnostic tool developers, as all available measures and codings and stuff comes with that set of information.
    My interpretation was that also the necessary sequences for output tests or basic settings are also delivered in some way.

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