2001 Audi TT 180Q APR stage II 17535 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)

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cedmonds

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2001 Audi TT Quattro 180HP

IP6dtmH.jpg


Car is Apr Stage II tuned, 4 Bar Bosch Pressure regulator, 034 2.75" MAF housing, 415CC Injectors, N75J Controller, KXY Diverter Valve, K04-23R XS-Power Turbo, 3" Downpipe, 3" full stainless exhaust with resonator, R8 Coil packs, NGK 4776 plugs, 034 Motorsport PCV system, Oil Catch can

Code:
Wednesday,11,September,2019,23:13:39:37176
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20190529 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: TRUWX28N511026273   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 8N (8N - Audi TT (1999 > 2007))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 22 35 37 45 55 56 76 77
 
VIN: TRUWX28N511026273   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl
   Part No: 8N0 906 018 L
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0003  
   Coding: 07700
   Shop #: WSC 14133  
   VCID: 3A7B14A826CEA19F97-515E
   TRUWX28N511026273     AUZ5Z0YD063118

1 Fault Found:
17535 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult) 
            P1127 - 35-00 - System too Rich
Readiness: 0010 1001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8N0-907-379-MK20-E.clb
   Part No: 8N0 907 379 E
   Component: ESP     20    CAN  V005   
   Coding: 18446
   Shop #: WSC 01236  
   VCID: 3E7318B83AE68DBFAB-4B1A

2 Faults Found:
01542 - Yaw Rate Sensor (G202) 
            57-10 - Electric Circuit Failure - Intermittent
01542 - Yaw Rate Sensor (G202) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8N0-820-043.lbl
   Part No: 8N0 820 043 A
   Component: TT-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT D03  
   Coding: 00140
   Shop #: WSC 01236  
   VCID: 285FDEE0C862230FF1-2580

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8N8-909-601.lbl
   Part No: 8N8 909 601 
   Component: Airbag Front+Seite 2008  
   Coding: 10103
   Shop #: WSC 00037  
   VCID: 77FDCD9C555C7CF7A8-515E

1 Fault Found:
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error 
            00-10 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8Nx-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 8N1 920 930 J
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 D55  
   Coding: 07244
   Shop #: WSC 03303  
   VCID: 387F0EA018C2B38F61-4B00
   TRUWX28N511026273     AUZ5Z0YD063118

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD        Labels: 02D-900-554.lbl
   Part No: 02D 900 554 D
   Component: HALDEX LSC  ECC     0011  
   VCID: 2149C3C4AB58D247B6-4B00

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels:. 8Nx-962-267.lbl
   Part No: 8N8 962 267 A
   Component: Central Lock/Alarm  D05  
   Coding: 15884
   Shop #: WSC 09515  
   VCID: 3F8D65BC3DEC84B7A0-4ECE

2 Faults Found:
01366 - Opened Due to Crash Signal 
            35-00 - -
01560 - Passenger Door 
            59-00 - Can't Unlock

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 8E0-951-177.lbl
   Part No: 8N8 951 177 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    D09  
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 7CF7D2B06C7A5FAFC5-5198

1 Fault Found:
01463 - Alarm triggered by Sensor for anti-theft alarm System 
            35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 907 357 
   Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER  D004  
   Coding: 00010
   Shop #: WSC 01236  
   VCID: 65C197D4FFF0FE670A-51B6

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:08)--------------------------

Well... I took my car uptown to get my AC recharged it was running pretty much worry free under its current configuration for the past 3 years daily driven minus eating suspensions and steering racks like its cool every year or so. It took them 2 weeks to determine they couldn't recharge the AC. When I got my car back it was all messed up. Wouldn't go above 45mph. I think it was really just bad timing on their part because I got an error for the MAF and the rich fuel trim plus a misfire on 3 +4, there was obvious corrosion on the MAF when I inspected it. I replaced that with an OEM VW one from ECS and replaced my plugs with NGK 4776 (what i've been running since stage 2 a few years back) and new coils. Still Rich Fuel trim...Drove it around a bit longer then my MAP was throwing a code. I replaced that replaced that and my IAT with OEM VW from ECS. Then my 02 sensor started throwing a code for the 02 heater not working so I replaced that (upstream, downstream is tuned out in theory from the APR stage 2 but it's installed on an 02 spacer incase) with a Bosch one from ECS. As I chased this Fuel Trim issue different codes kept popping up till finally past two days i'm just back at
17535/P1127/004391 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult): System too Rich
. I listened to all my injectors they don't sound abnormal, Just chained my oil no smell of gas, New plugs, New coils. I pulled the vacuum line off the FPR while the engine was running no fuel in the vacuum line and the FPR does seem to be working correctly. I ordered a new boost leak tester but I kinda doubt it's that becasue when I put a vacuum gauge on it was holding steady and gorgeous at idle. I don't have anyone to help me rev it while I watch the gauge so i'll need more vacuum hose before I can tell ya what that does. I believe ages ago I replaced my N80 but it didn't make it onto my maintenance logs. I'm not throwing any evap codes but i'm out of places to look. Everything i've changed has improved the car from when I first got it back but nothing has seemed to cure it.

The only other thing I haven't explored is Fuel Pressure. I'm 80% sure my car has always had a semi faulty check valve in the pump because after sitting overnight it's a bit hard starting unless you prime the key twice. It's been like that since I bought the car about 4 years ago. Can anyone elaborate on Fuel pressure affecting fuel trim and if it could cause a
17535/P1127/004391 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult): System too Rich.

I also did some data logging tonight. I wasn't sure what all to log so I just picked some stuff that looked useful. The following: Engine speed, Coolant temp, Lambda - Controller, Ignition timing angle, Coolant again?, Intake Air Temp, Engine Load, Lambda Sensor, Mass air flow, n75 Wastegate, Boost pressure (specified) , Boost Pressure (actual)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PZnaPVCc26cymw4JOUP2Xmctq_GcyY2rpcveVt_T1MQ/edit?usp=sharing



This is my current maintenance log to go into further detail of what exactly has been serviced
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RVpmLrGnQUnMBsWcMkvCZMUqXIdKB95Q_KQyLFhoXos/edit?usp=sharing
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Second MAF correct and not FOD?
This code is multiplicative!
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Then my 02 sensor started throwing a code for the 02 heater not working so I replaced that (upstream, downstream is tuned out in theory from the APR stage 2 but it's installed on an 02 spacer incase) with a Bosch one from ECS

Sounds like your FOD tuning & spacer may have or is ignoring faults shared for rear OXS & ECU internally shares the OXS circuit heaters & may have damaged ECU physically disrupting the ability to monitor?
 
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cedmonds

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Second MAF correct and not FOD?
This code is multiplicative!

Well the second (and final) MAF I installed was Bosch from ECS, I did a ton of research on VWvortex to confirm it's OEM and the general consensus was its the same numbers stamped on it but one comes in a box with VW logos. This 2nd one is running better than the original that had corrosion and an MAF error, or the first replacement which was a Beck Arnley for an AWP but it ran so bad the car ran better with the MAF disconnected. This bosch one everything seems happier given the current situation.

Sounds like your FOD tuning & spacer may have or is ignoring faults shared for rear OXS & ECU internally shares the OXS circuit heaters & may have damaged ECU physically disrupting the ability to monitor?
Yeah the tune to the best of my understanding removes the secondary 02 sensor. I've had the spacer on there since way back when the car was only stage 1. With the new 02 sensor I am no longer throwing any codes about the heating circuit so I'm gonna guess that's good to go.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/inde...1_-_Fuel_Trim;_Bank_1_(Mult):_System_too_Rich
Literally only thing on this list I haven't investigated is Fuel Pressure and I saw a video where a guy was talking about a failing fuel pump causing the fuel to spit and sputter resulting in a rich fuel trim but more common would be excess fuel pressure from a failing FPR or dripping injectors. Regardless I need to buy a fuel pressure gauge if i'm going to diagnose that any further unless anyone has any tips. I may be completely backwards but if the car is reporting a negative fuel trim that means it's telling the computer it needs to adjust for more fuel, if it does that out of range for long enough you throw a CEL. Either way the pump in the car is nearly 20 years old. I got the upgraded one from 034 motorsport coming.... If that don't fix it, its gotta be the ECM but why would the ECM give up the ghost out of nowhere after 3 years of rocking out with the current tune and hardware configuration?

This guy is the only one i've found with the exact same issue where the N75 is being told to dump. He thought for sure it was the tune after the n75 didn't cure his woes but they put it on a rolling road and found out the fuel pump was knackered.

https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/turbo-boost-issues-1-8t-20v.202070/page-2


If I do get the car running right again you better believe i'm going to do logs so I have something to compare it against in the future which would have been smart had I have done that years ago lol. I guess if my repair efforts don't work I might need to piggy back a stand alone engine controller to the stock ecu to do some troubleshooting. It being an AWD controller and everything being so freaking integrated I can't think of any other way of doing it...none of this gives me a great feeling of confidence.
 
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vwparts

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I like obd2 data for fuel trim, a bit easier to follow (in my opinion) but if it's rich at cruise speed, it could be a bunch of things.

I have a 1.8T swapped rabbit. I had no symptoms, codes etc but was poking around and saw my LTFT at idle was like -20....so the ecu was pulling fuel at idle. in the end, I had a bad FPR....you need to get a gauge on this and see what's happening.

seeing you are rich at cruise, I would suspect the real possibility of a bad maf. I am sooo done with aftermarket. dealer only for me. 98% of all of my parts come from the dealer these days...I can't risk my reputation on clients cars to save a buck. too much junk/counterfeit parts out there...and worse on older cars it seems.

I would also pay attention to your coolant temp sensor. your gauge may read ok, but the ECU half of the sender could have taken a dump. I have had this sender fail both ways...on the ecu side or the gauge side. I can't ever recall seeing both sides fail together.

a bad check valve in the fuel pump will typically result in the hard start you're seeing. see how long rest pressure holds. a weak pump will typically run lean, and set misfires. the only "real" way a fuel pump could make too much pressure is if it was dead headed....as in a bad FPR not letting fuel return to the tank, or an obstruction in the return line.

there is also the possibility of a leaky injector, but that would usually show up at idle and "clean up" in the higher rpm range. also, check to make sure you don't have a stuck canister purge valve sucking in fuel vapor
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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fod-control-signs-risk-series.png



Car is FOD!

Change to stock ECU or flash stack and diagnose accordingly as per RTFB!

Why do people delete the rear OXS when it is indeed superior for mixture control?

Control unit probably already damaged & as a result of genesis of legacy OXS heater short?
 
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vwparts

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the rear o2 only monitors catalyst efficiency on this car. I agree, stock is best when doing diag for sure. I chased my tail once on a underperforming 1.8t once...long story short someone chipped the car (forget what tuner) and activated the valet mode inadvertently 5 hours of pin outs/road tests. guy was thankful I fixed it, until I handed him the bill. no one ever tells you the full story. on my check in sheets I now ask has the car been modified. the car I had was bone stock, minus the tune.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Should you need a stock and verified working ECU please let me know or a set of factory OXS sensors & ECU combined?
 
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cedmonds

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Should you need a stock and verified working ECU please let me know or a set of factory OXS sensors & ECU combined?

I'm going to try to change the FPR, N80, and the Pump. If those don't work i'll be needing to find an ECU with the immobilizer deleted. The upstream sensor is just a few days old but would probably need a downstream. It looks like your in the business of immobilizer removal and parts so i'll let ya know if things head that way. It seems like I should be able to test that OXS circuit heater. I'll poke into that a bit more as well
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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10-4

FYI:

Did you know the N80 and EVAP gases in this car are calculated by the rear OXS sensor & I wonder what or how it does this with a spacer or coded out?

Units we sell are not modified.

Immobilizer removed test units are not a problem, however, will never have a VIN number written to them unless a legal form is completed and the identity of old unit is sent to destroy or strip it.
 
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vwparts

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I'm going to try to change the FPR, N80, and the Pump. If those don't work i'll be needing to find an ECU with the immobilizer deleted. The upstream sensor is just a few days old but would probably need a downstream. It looks like your in the business of immobilizer removal and parts so i'll let ya know if things head that way. It seems like I should be able to test that OXS circuit heater. I'll poke into that a bit more as well

why not do some diag first insread of throwing parts at it? this could get expensive quick. I know, it seems "easy" to just replace a bunch of crap but you may find you didn't need to play parts darts or fire the parts cannon at this.
 
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cedmonds

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why not do some diag first insread of throwing parts at it? this could get expensive quick. I know, it seems "easy" to just replace a bunch of crap but you may find you didn't need to play parts darts or fire the parts cannon at this.

That is exactly what we were doing with all the VCDS logs and code scans, vacuum gauge? The issue kept evolving as i'd fix things until it finally ran out of things to throw codes for. If it was something easy to diagnose I assure you it would be done...:facepalm: The only reason we are throwing parts at it is we are out of options for diagnosing. Shipping on parts, just to see if its gonna improve anything, is generally at least a week and a half out here where I live if I don't pay for rush shipping. I don't really have the ability to just flash it all back to OEM without swapping ECU's. The tune has a limited lifetime warranty I could go pester the tuning shop that did it but it would have to wait till october when I can be without the car again. I'm not a big fan of driving it while it has a rich fuel trim, it can contaminate a lot of things but that's what i'm stuck doing till october. For how much I've dumped into it since getting it back from the AC shop I probably could have bought a craigslist beater. I'll get a fuel gauge on the line but it's gonna take just as long to get here as the rest of it. The MAF is OEM from what i've read the numbers are exactly the same but the package is different. ECS is pretty reputable. Coolant temp seems right with the infrared pyrometer as it shows on VCDS and on the HVAC. If the sender in the ECU took a dump what would you expect to see?

Also i'm pretty sure the 02 sensor circuit is fine becasue I threw the old 02 in for kicks and the code came right back....With the new one no codes other than rich trim which is what we've been chasing. I do see my Lambda go to 14.1 before going to -15.6 so the car is going hella lean before the fuel trim tries to intervene.

I'm leaving town the 25th of september, i'll be back at the end of the month and maybe try my luck at scheduling an appointment at the shop that did the tune. They have a rolling road and the guy was a VW guy before he turned into a subie guy so he was really knowledgeable on this 1.8t awp.
 
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vwparts

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I do see my Lambda go to 14.1 before going to -15.6 so the car is going hella lean before the fuel trim tries to intervene.

fuel trim should come into play rapidly...within a minute or 3. the car isn't "going lean" per se, it's pulling fuel...so yes, it's going lean, because there is a rich condition. you need to find what is causing it. and believe it or not, a vacuum leak could cause this too as the ECU is adding fuel, and sometimes will end up fighting itself. (add too much fuel, then starts pulling fuel)

interested to see what you find. stuff like this is hard to diag via sitting on a computer. wish I could see stuff in person. you'll get there...keep fighting
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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See OP? If the rear OXS was active, it would show the aforementioned for a vacuum leak on that multiplicative DTC?
Indeed I bet it leaks air right at intake gasket on number 3 & 4 zyl, you know the legacy DTC's?
VWParts gave great advise on this!
 
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vwparts

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VWParts gave great advise on this!

easy killer. I just stayed at a holiday inn last night :D

what is your vacuum at idle? after my last post, I thought about this....I re-re-re-read the whole thread. the only mention of vac is "it was steady and gorgeous at idle" I don't have that number on my gauge....so if you would, I want to know hot (operating temp) idle vac please. and...i'm really trying to help....so don't cheese the results...I need to know HOT idle vac before I pose another idea. again, hot idle vac after a 20 minute run please
 
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