MMI 3G+/3GP system problem

   #1  

Finnspring

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Hi everyone! Gonna need little help please.

My car is Audi A6 avant 2012 3.0tdi quattro
Media Version : HN+R_EU_AU_P0485
Nav. database version : 8R0060884N ECE 5.12.5

Tried to update my firmware to the newer one K0900 and there was some prompted errors... First i tryed retry update few times, then i pressed skip this file and it did go forward a while, and then again error came... Next there was only option retry or cancel update and i tried to retry few times and then i cancelled update becaus nothing worked... So what i can do?? i have 32gb sdhc card fat32 formatted.. Is there anything what i can do myself?

Now when i try to start this update again and try to solve this problem, i put sdcard to slot 1 and start car.. This is all what happens... First green screen, its erasing something at start and succesfully do that, then system start to program something and after few minutes come Flash CRC error with RED screen and immediatly after that METAINFO CRC error with red screen and then 60seconds black screen and system goes black... so what i can do, can anyone help me? i can get fault codes tomorrow evening after work if that helps..

I have photos also but dont know how to add those to here... :/
 
   #2  

PetrolDave

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C?ID=1423
Please post a full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan so we can see exactly how your MMI and car are configured.
 
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   #4  

Finnspring

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Auto-Scan

Please post a full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan so we can see exactly how your MMI and car are configured.

Thank you for your answer, here is the list.

Code:
Wednesday,14,August,2019,21:11:48:31171
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.0.6 (x64)
Data version: 20190529 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ4G1CN052976   License Plate: CMF-586
Mileage: 175496   Repair Order: 


Chassis Type: 4G-AU57 (4G0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 10 15 16 17 18 19 28 3B 42 44 46 52 53 55
          56 5F 62 69 72

VIN: WAUZZZ4G1CN052976   

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Cannot be reached 0100
18-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
28-HVAC, Rear -- Status: Malfunction 0010
3B-Sensor Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Cannot be reached 0100
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: Cannot be reached 0100
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
69-Trailer -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CLAA)       Labels:. 059-907-401-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 907 311 B    HW: 4G0 907 401 
   Component: 3.0TDI EDC17  H37 0002  
   Revision: 53H37---    
   Coding: 1225401A053601020000
   Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM30TDI0114G0907311B 001003
   ROD: EV_ECM30TDI0114G0907311B.rod
   VCID: 2273D4B735B6325FA3-8076

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217)       Labels:| 0B5-927-156.clb
   Part No SW: 4G1 927 156 C    HW: 0B5 927 156 F
   Component: 0B5 30 TDIRdW H10 0001  
   Revision: --H10---    Serial number: 0000000204
   Coding: 000001
   Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDL501 A02087
   ROD: EV_TCMDL501.rod
   VCID: 2D69378B7C68FD270E-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 4G0-907-379-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 907 379 F    HW: 4G0 907 379 F
   Component: ESP PREMIUM   H09 0250  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 07A68701E065E180FB00
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ESPPremiAU57X 004017
   ROD: EV_ESPPremiAU57X_004_AU57.rod
   VCID: 345F22EF9F42ACEF41-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 907 064 BN    HW: 4H0 907 064 BN
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H31 0330  
   Revision: 00002001    
   Coding: 01A93006000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 76DBD8E7C1BEFEFFBF-8022

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 4H0 905 852 C    HW: 4H0 905 852 C
   Component: J764 ELV MLB  H39 0046 
   Serial number: 2311000195273006    

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 4G0-820-043-4Z.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 820 043 K    HW: 4G0 820 043 K
   Component: KLIMA 4 ZONEN H11 0062  
   Serial number: 11091100040331
   Coding: 3612007820
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirCondiComfoUDS 002033
   ROD: EV_AirCondiComfoUDS_002.rod
   VCID: 2765C5A35E94D777F4-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 4H0-907-063-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 907 063 BF    HW: 4H0 907 063 F
   Component: BCM1 2.0      H12 0100  
   Revision: 20012002    Serial number: 00000001046063
   Coding: 2600E01040349FE00181008300001D0C0F9CE70826090101000008602100
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 6DE9F78BB4E83D274E-8038

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 4G1 955 119     HW: 4G8 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS57X 110805  H35 0051 
   Serial number:         110810022246
   Coding: 0045F7

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 955 559     HW: 8K0 955 559   Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
   Component: RLS  H04 0003 
   Serial number: 11664405            
   Coding: 02512B

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 4G0 941 531 E    HW: 4G0 941 531 E
   Component: E1 - LDS  H07 0044 
   Serial number: 11 09 2011  00000055

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 4H0 907 658     HW: 4H0 907 658 
   Component: AQ_Hum_Sensor  H02 0002 
   Serial number: 66384FB5000000000001

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:| 4H0-919-475-7X2.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 919 475 L    HW: 4H0 919 475 C
   Component: PARKHILFE ACC H07 0043  
   Revision: 11001001    Serial number: 55901125800747
   Coding: 090307
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18AU57X0000 002005
   ROD: EV_EPHVA18AU57X0000_002_AU57.rod
   VCID: 3B4D09D3B21C639780-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:* 4H0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 959 655 C    HW: 4H0 959 655 C
   Component: Airbag10.43   H40 0040  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003JG00452FL
   Coding: 30323436313330303431554A304C34473053
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaAU10BPAAU64X 001014
   ROD: EV_AirbaAU10BPAAU64X_VW51.rod
   VCID: 365B18E7893EBEFF7F-8062

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 3575HRB404V0OPI2711K

   Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 3585HRB40530OPI248MJ

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
   Serial number: 3515JRB405L0N49OB1FG

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
   Serial number: 3525JRB40610NS9O5H4L

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 3554VRB40670N49OHO8/

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 3564VRB405H0M8GE998R

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:. 4H0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 953 568 A    HW: 4G0 953 568 A
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H05 0201  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 20110914000338
   Coding: 000015
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 30572EFF635A90CF25-8064

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 4G0 951 528 C    HW: 4G0 951 528 C
   Component: E221 - MFL  H08 0009 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:. 4H0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 4G8 920 931 E    HW: 4G8 920 931 E
   Component: TDieRdw       H71 0375  
   Revision: 26181114    Serial number: 658140911591006
   Coding: 13A611000B010008010000
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_RBD4K 004040
   ROD: N/A
   VCID: 30572EFF6B5A90CF25-8064

Unsupported vehicle.Please upgrade to a current Ross-Tech interface.
No ASAM data for: "EV_RBD4K" (AU57) 
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat (J364)       Labels:. 8R0-265-105.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 265 105 E    HW: 4H0 265 105 E
   Component: Standheizung  H24 0250  
   Revision: 66006006    Serial number: 20110820045353
   Coding: 5D3B00
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 247FD2AF27A23C6FD1-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:* None
   Part No SW: 4G0 907 468 E    HW: 4G0 907 468 A
   Component: J533--Gateway H08 0213  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 00000000249497
   Coding: 00CD077D00
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_GatewUDS 001025
   ROD: EV_GatewUDS_AU57.rod
   VCID: 325324F76556A2DF53-8066

   Battery Monitoring Control Module: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8X0 915 181     HW: 8X0 915 181 
   Component: J367-BDM  H07 0140 
   Serial number: 00000000005650309342

   Voltage stabilizer: 
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 663     HW: 8K0 959 663 
   Component: J532_DCDCStab  H17 0042 
   Serial number: 11257000323011200181

3 Faults Found:
0269 - Optical data bus 
          U104A 00 [009] - No Communication
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 76
                    Reset counter: 118
                    Mileage: 174946 km
                    Date: 2019.08.10
                    Time: 14:08:17

                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.6 V
                    Voltage terminal 15: 0.0 V
                    Control Module temperature: 45 °C
                    System status: Awake_Timer_active
                    IN ESP_standstill flag: no standstill detected
                    Engine running: OFF
                    IN ZAS_Te_X: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status via CAN: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status: OFF
                    Datenfeld: 0

12290 - Quiescent Current 
          U1406 00 [008] - Too High
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 7
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 157
                    Mileage: 175480 km
                    Date: 2019.08.14
                    Time: 10:02:44

                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.3 V
                    Voltage terminal 15: 0.0 V
                    Control Module temperature: 17 °C
                    System status: LIN_active
                    IN ESP_standstill flag: no standstill detected
                    Engine running: OFF
                    IN ZAS_Te_X: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status via CAN: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status: OFF
                    Datenfeld: 0

12291 - Energy Management Active 
          U140B 00 [008] - -
          [New feature! Extended UDS fault detail is only supported by current gen. interfaces]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 7
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 157
                    Mileage: 175480 km
                    Date: 2019.08.14
                    Time: 13:05:59

                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.2 V
                    Voltage terminal 15: 0.0 V
                    Control Module temperature: 16 °C
                    System status: Awake_Timer_active
                    IN ESP_standstill flag: no standstill detected
                    Engine running: OFF
                    IN ZAS_Te_X: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status via CAN: OFF
                    Terminal 15 status: OFF
                    Datenfeld: 1


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear (E265)       Labels:* 4G0-919-158.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 919 158 C    HW: 4G0 919 158 C
   Component: KLIMA FOND    H07 0062  
   Serial number: 29081100040716
   Coding: 01
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ClimaContrUnitRearUDS 002015
   ROD: EV_ClimaContrUnitRearUDS_002.rod
   VCID: 2F552D8376648F373C-807A

3 Faults Found:
0033 - Motor for Rear Right Upper Body Vent 
          B10D4 22 [008] - Signal Amplitude Too High
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 103
                    Reset counter: 156
                    Mileage: 171818 km
                    Date: 2019.06.17
                    Time: 15:45:45

                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.25 V
                    Outside air temperature: 31.0 °C
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Act.val.: 11701
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Specified value: 11701
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Stop open: 11395
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Stop closed: 10000

0034 - Motor for Rear Right Upper Body Vent 
          B10D4 21 [008] - Signal Amplitude Too Low
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 155
                    Mileage: 173946 km
                    Date: 2019.07.21
                    Time: 17:06:48

                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.38 V
                    Outside air temperature: 28.0 °C
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Act.val.: 9849
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Specified value: 9849
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Stop open: 11395
                    Right Rear Upper Body Vent Motor-Stop closed: 10000

0075 - Button or Switch in Operating Unit 
          B10C7 07 [008] - Mechanical Failure
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 152
                    Mileage: 175053 km
                    Date: 2019.08.11
                    Time: 13:57:16

                    Outside air temperature: 26.5 °C
                    Left rear vent temperature: 16.1 °C


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 3B: Sensor Elect. (J849)       Labels: 4G0-907-637.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 907 637     HW: 4G0 907 637 
   Component: SARA 3D       H02 0004  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: EJ1BPA3200HZBJ0
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_SARA 006014
   ROD: EV_SARA_006.rod
   VCID: 6BEDF99382FC331750-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:. 4H0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 4G8 959 793 E    HW: 4G8 959 793 A
   Component: TSG FA        H05 0212  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 011C16204000620002080002
   Shop #: WSC 02312 785 00200
   VCID: 42B37437DDF6125FC3-8016

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500)       Labels:| 4G0-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 909 144 L    HW: 4G0 909 144 G
   Component: RCEPS         H35 0010  
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 0026150376
   Coding: 101000010000
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPS 009008
   ROD: EV_RCEPS_009.rod
   VCID: 325324F76556A2DF53-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels:. 4H0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 907 064 BN    HW: 4H0 907 064 BN
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H31 0330  
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0158532012    
   Coding: 013A062020B9040083200904200104000000000000000000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 76DBD8E7C1BEFEFFBF-8022

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4G0 951 177 
   Component: DWA-Sensor  H01 0010 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:. 4H0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 4G8 959 792 E    HW: 4G8 959 792 A
   Component: TSG BF        H05 0212  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 011C16204000620002080002
   Shop #: WSC 02312 785 00200
   VCID: 41B17B3BD8F00947DA-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (----)       Labels: 4H0-907-801.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 907 801 E    HW: 4H0 907 801 A
   Component: EPB-4         H03 0012  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 00000000134909
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ParkiBrake 001022
   ROD: EV_ParkiBrake_VW51.rod
   VCID: 2A633C974D86EA1FEB-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range (J431)       Labels:| 8X0-907-357.clb
   Part No SW: 4H0 907 357 A    HW: 4H0 907 357 A
   Component: ....LWR12.... H02 0013  
   Serial number: 110915-0004-118
   Coding: 1122A6101002A300
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_HeadlRegulBasic 005001
   ROD: EV_HeadlRegulBasic.rod
   VCID: 2C6F3A8F4772F42F19-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr.
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left (J388)       Labels: None
   Part No SW: 4G8 959 795 E    HW: 4G8 959 795 A
   Component: TSG HL        H04 0212  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 010814204000620002080002
   Shop #: WSC 02312 785 00200
   VCID: 44BF722FC7E21C6FF1-8010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 69: Trailer (J345)       Labels:. 4G8-907-383-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 4G8 907 383     HW: 4G8 907 383 
   Component: Anhaenger     H09 0100  
   Revision: 5G001001    Serial number: 00000155492496
   Coding: 0109080000000000
   Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
   VCID: 71D1EBFBA8D0D9C76A-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right (J389)       Labels: None
   Part No SW: 4G8 959 795 E    HW: 4G8 959 795 A
   Component: TSG HR        H04 0212  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 010814204000620002080002
   Shop #: WSC 02312 785 00200
   VCID: 44BF722FC7E21C6FF1-8010

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:46)--------------------------
 
   #5  

Finnspring

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Thanks Mari, im more wiser now. :) *or not, something went wrong :D *


https://imgur.com/SjoKErC
SjoKErC.jpg

First happened this

https://imgur.com/4hrp5Xy
4hrp5Xy.jpg

Then this one

https://imgur.com/86su1Fx
86su1Fx.jpg

Red screen...

https://imgur.com/VT6FPCi
VT6FPCi.jpg

Red screen still..

Now the whole system is black, example i start car immediatly it shows that red screen, trigger shutdown and it goes full black screen after that 60seconds, but weirdly there is some "back" light still... Same when i put SD card to in and try update again, straight to red screen and after that black... nothing else...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #6  

Mari

Verified VCDS User
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Messages
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Location
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VCDS Serial number
C?ID=150535
Never try to fix things that are not broken...

We need more information... for instance where you got your update? And what procedure you have to follow to install the firmware update? I presume you have first downloaded something, but what step is the next one?

https://upgrademyaudi.net/tutorials/updating-the-firmware/

IMPORTANT: PLEASE DO NOT USE MACOS TO COPY THE FILES. MACOS CREATING LOTS OF HIDDEN FILES AND MMI CAN BE LITTLE BIT CONFUSED AND DISPLAY ERROR. SD CARD MUST BE FORMATTED AS FAT32!
 
Last edited:
   #7  

Mari

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Maybe this will help:

If you're lucky like I was, simply reformat the memory card and put the firmware that you were trying to upgrade to (NOT THE FW THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE).
Stick it into the MMI and reboot it holding the 3 buttons, this should kick the unit into emergency update mode
 
   #8  

Finnspring

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Never try to fix things that are not broken...

We need more information... for instance where you got your update? And what procedure you have to follow to install the firmware update? I presume you have first downloaded something, but what step is the next one?

https://upgrademyaudi.net/tutorials/updating-the-firmware/

Hi again! Thanks for tips. Here's the link for updates and maps
https://www.a5oc.com/threads/mmi-3g...2-and-firmware-updates-currently-2017.113737/

My FW and maps is original from 2012 and wanted newer FW and maps so i can find new routes :DD And my BT connection was so messy some times so i thinked i want to newer FW to fix problems..

I have tryed to force reboot but nothing else happened, same think everytime... I think i need some emergency update file so i can force MMI to emergency mode, so i can update FW again and open Green menu etc... But do not know where i can find that kind of file.. :S

Or does anyone know if i can code MMI system back to work with VCDS or somehow?
 
   #9  

Mari

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Firmware doesn't fix hardware problems... some phones have good BT connections, others don't... Many forget that they can clean-up their BT connections on their phones and even on the infotainment-system in the car...

I'm afraid this problem can't be solved with VCDS... did you ask on the A5OC-forum for help? They provide the files... so they probably know how to solve things when it goes wrong!
 
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