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Thread: STOP START PERMANENT DELETE, ANY TIPS?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Hmm, based on my understanding of the English language, if it isn't illegal do something, then it's legal to do that thing.

    -Uwe-
    It’s my law background rearing its ugly head.

    Do you know what the definition of is is?
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    ^^^ hmm......... As a prelude to my confusion, I'll freely admit that I may not be the brightest penny in the purse and I'm particularly obtuse when it comes to understanding America's legal instruments for vehicle compliance (your DoT rules for car lighting is absolutely unfathomable IMHO).

    So, in view of the preceeding posts - can someone explain to me how the legal (or for that matter, the ethical) prohibition for disabling Start/stop sits with VAG's inclusion of the little button in their cars that does just that (i.e. disables SS)?

    If a driver of a car with SS presses the button every-time that the ignition is cycled -does she commit a misdemeanor in America?

    And, if the prohibition is for another definition of "permanent" disablement - are the suite of after-market physical devices (like my design) still legal -because they allow SS to be engaged if the driver is so disposed?

    And for those drivers that have an ethical problem with SS disablement and who are flooded with Catholic guilt at the mere thought of a finger approaching the native SS button - why do they buy a car that has such a facility?

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Hmm, based on my understanding of the English language, if it isn't illegal do something, then it's legal to do that thing.

    -Uwe-
    I’ll also thank you for tacitly defending my mods, as they meet your criteria, Jack and a few others could learn from your superior intellect.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    So, in view of the preceeding posts - can someone explain to me how the legal (or for that matter, the ethical) prohibition for disabling Start/stop sits with VAG's inclusion of the little button in their cars that does just that (i.e. disables SS)?
    I think the idea is that there may be acceptable reasons to turn off s/s temporarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    If a driver of a car with SS presses the button every-time that the ignition is cycled -does she commit a misdemeanor in America?
    I seriously doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    And, if the prohibition is for another definition of "permanent" disablement - are the suite of after-market physical devices (like my design) still legal -because they allow SS to be engaged if the driver is so disposed?
    Unclear. The EPA may take a different view of something that has it off by default rather than the factory's on by default. But the bureaucratic hive-mind is beyond my comprehension, so I'm only guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    And for those drivers that have an ethical problem with SS disablement and who are flooded with Catholic guilt at the mere thought of a finger approaching the native SS button - why do they buy a car that has such a facility (i.e. they thereby support a manufacturer that dabbles in heinous practices)?
    I have yet to encounter a person that has ethical problem with temporary disablement via the button.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    I think the idea is that there may be acceptable reasons to turn off s/s temporarily.


    I seriously doubt it.


    Unclear. The EPA may take a different view of something that has it off by default rather than the factory's on by default. But the bureaucratic hive-mind is beyond my comprehension, so I'm only guessing.


    I have yet to encounter a person that has ethical problem with temporary disablement via the button.

    -Uwe-
    All good points, but none of them are codified in law. The sticking point among the group is the “permanaent” disablement via coding and the horrors created by such. It’s like these folks think the EPA is lurking behind every tree.
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  7. #86
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    except for perhaps jack
    I really don't care what someone does to their own property or on their own property & their privacy is to be respected, with inverse expectation & as long as it doesn't encroach on me or cause possible liability for me or someone I care for or the helpless & including my safe reasonably expected clean environment.

    It's when that boundary is breached, pretty much for everything & as a rule for me, countermeasures or possible defense is to be taken with consideration of repercussions
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  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    I really don't care what someone does to their own property or on their own property & their privacy is to be respected, with inverse expectation & as long as it doesn't encroach on me or cause possible liability for me or someone I care for or the helpless & including my safe reasonably expected clean environment.

    It's when that boundary is breached, pretty much for everything & as a rule for me, countermeasures or possible defense is to be taken.
    Happens to me on the road all the time. It’s like Mad Max out there. We all know the gun grabbing state of New York cuts your balls off, so have that phone ready to call the police for defense!
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  9. #88
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I'd be quite surprised if there's a specific start/stop law.

    However, if the manufacturer (VW) used the fact that it has a start/stop system as part of the emissions certification process, then permanently disabling that system would make the car non-compliant with its emissions certification, and doing so would indeed be illegal according to the EPA's statement in the article you previously linked to. I mean an engine that isn't running inherently produces fewer emissions than one that is, right? And the emissions test cycle surely includes some simulated stopped-at-a-red-light time....

    -Uwe-


    Vehicle Identification No. 3VW6T7BU9KM153XXX
    Model Jetta 2,0
    JEM
    Date of production 29.01.2019
    Model year 2019
    Sales type BU39VZ
    Engine Code DKFA
    Transmission Code TSX

    Emission standard 7CB Emission standard LEV 3/Tier 3 30

    Durability Group: KVGAGPGNNA3AEvap.

    Family: KVGAR0110ABBKVGAR0135ACT

    Test Group: KVGAJ02.0A3A

    Certificate Number: KVGAJ02.0A3A – 010, 018
    Durability Group Description:Four Stroke, Otto Cycle, Gasoline Fueled, Direct Fuel Injection,Catalyst Code: UTC1007, UTC1005
    Test group Description: 2.0 Liter Turbocharged I4 – LDV / LDT2 (Tiguan)
    Applicable Standards: 50-State: Federal:CA:Tier 3 BIN 30 LEVIII SULEV30
    Car lines Covered: Tiguan, Tiguan 4Motion, A3, A3 Cabriolet, A3 Cabriolet quattro,A3 quattro, TT Coupe quattro, TT Roadster quattro, Golf GTI,Jetta GLI


    KVGAJ02.0A3A

    Jetta GLI (DQ-F)DKFA

    5G0.906.259.Q 0003 C75A4149
    5G0259Q 0003 DXAJ80AD8F88 5G0259Q 0003 BXAJJetta GLI (MQ-F) B078ADC5
    5G0259Q 0003 AXADF78F6304 5G0259Q 0003 CXAD



    Engine Starting procedure:Press the brake pedal and move the selector lever into the P or N position.Press the “START ENGINE STOP” button or Start engine by turning key to “Start” positionESP/ABS Deactivation procedureDyno test mode must be activated!Fan Position during dyno testing:FTP / HWY = Small fan in front down position.US06 = Large fan in front down position.

    Address 01: Engine (J623-DKFA) Labels: None
    Part No SW: 5G0 906 259 Q HW: 06K 907 425 J
    Component: 2.0l R4 TFSI H13 0003
    Revision: --H13---
    Coding: 092500124424012F3000


    Address 02: Auto Trans (J743) Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
    Part No SW: 0GC 300 020 G HW: 0GC 927 711 H
    Component: GSG DQ381 H06 2403
    Revision: 00H06V08
    Coding: 0014











    Code:
    
    
    
    Special editions E35 35 years GLI
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    Storage compartment 7N0 Without overhead storage compartment
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    Owner's manuals 0VM Information kit in American English
    Operating voltage 9Z0 Operating voltage 12 V
    brake wear indicator 9U0 Without brake pad wear indicator
    Heated washer nozzles 9T0 Without heated washer nozzles
    CD ROM/DVD/SD card 7QA Without CD/DVD for navigation
    "Charism" 2H4 Driving profile selection and hydraulic damper control
    Chrome package QJ0 Without aluminum/chrome package
    General operating permit, alterations C00 Operating permit, initial registration
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    Suspension system in front G26 Shock absorption in front
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    ECO function for driving profiles and Drive select EF1 ECO function
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    Inserts 5MT Decorative inserts
    Scuff plates VT9 Sill trim strips campaign versions
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    Electric interface for external use UI5 External, USB type A, 1x USB socket
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    window regulator 4R4 Power windows with comfort operation and circuit breaker
    fire extinguisher 6A0 without fire extinguisher
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    Pedal cluster VF1 pedal cluster
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    Weight category rear axle 0YF Weight range 6 installation control only, no requirement forecast
    Weight category front axle L39 Suspension range 39 installation control only, no requirement forecast
    Base engine TX8 4-cylinder SI engine 2.0 l unit 06K.3
    cruise control system 8T2 Electronic cruise control system (CCS)
    Transmission specifications G1C 7-speed automatic transmission
    handle for hand brake lever 6PB Without hand brake lever handle
    Rear spoiler 5J4 Body-colored rear spoiler
    Rear window wiper and washer system 8M0 Without rear window wiper and washer system
    Rear axle 0N4 4-link rear suspension
    Molded headliner 6NW Unsplit molding roof liner
    Rear seats 3KF Rücksitzbank ungeteilt, Lehne geteilt umlegbar mit Mittelarmlehne
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    Customized installation FC1 Customized installation
    Interior light in footwell 6T1 Interior light in footwell
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    Breakaway interior rearview mirror 4L6 Breakaway interior rearview mirror, auto-dimming
    Sticker (customized or special edition) 0KZ Decals for special editions
    Body style K8B Notchback
    Camera/distance sensor QK0 Without multifunction camera
    coolbox 1W0 Without refrigerator/glove compartment cooling system
    Folding table 1U8 W/o folding table on front seat backrest
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    Vehicle inlet ES0 Without vehicle inlet
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    steering 1N7 Dynamic steering
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    Bumper 2JG Body-colored bumpers
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    starter 7U2 Preparation for retrofitting, engine starter plus remote start feature
    Front stabilizer bar 0AE Front stabilizer bar
    Drawers under front seats QN0 Without drawers under front seats
    Headlamp washer system 8X0 Without headlamp washer system
    Windshield wiper intermittent control/ light/rain sensor 8N6 Windshield wiper intermittent control with light/rain sensor
    Nameplate set 0NQ Nameplate set "GLI"
    Mass damper for steering wheels 1Q0 steering wheel without balance weight
    Door and lid locking system 4F6 Central locking system "Keyless Entry" without SAFELOCK (NAR)
    Type approval countries/countries with special requirements BU2 Legal requirements for USA 2 States with CARB requirement
    Carrier frequency for remote control 5D2 Carrier frequency 315 MHz
    Partition 3CA Without partition
    Door and side trim panels 3LJ Door and side trim panel in foam film, insert in leatherette
    doors 0A2 4 doors
    TV reception/digital radio reception QV0 without TV/digital radio reception
    Front underbody guard 1SA Without additional front underbody guard
    Identification plates 1EB Ohne Typschild
    Delivery equipment 2A0 Without delivery equipment
    First aid kit / warning triangle 1T0 Without first-aid material, without warning triangle
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    Front seats Q4H Sports comfort seats in front
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    Additional child seat anchors 3B7 Child seat anchors as per Canadian requirements a. ISOFIX child seat system
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    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 07-12-2019 at 04:52 AM.
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  11. #89
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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  13. #90
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    Great info. But still no mention of ASS(auto start stop, my new acronym).

    No ASS no cert no worries.
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