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Thread: STOP START PERMANENT DELETE, ANY TIPS?

  1. #41
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    FMVSS absolutely requires it, at least at time of manufacture. As for operation in any given state once you've purchased it, you may be technically correct.

    You may wish to consult this document about the real world benefits: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...l_complete.pdf I suspect the benefit may be even greater, if my guess is correct and you have tinted or smoked your primary brake lights, hard to tell.

    You may also wish to consult your insurance carrier. If someone rear-ends you, they would ordinarily be at clear fault. Right up until they, or someone nearby, has a dashcam rolling. At which point there will be a very interesting discussionbetween their insurance carrier, which can now assign partial blame to you, and your insurance carrier, which may have some coverage exceptions for gross or willful negligence.
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    Last edited by Uwe; 07-11-2019 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Civility
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  2. #42
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    Hmm....... my fellow forum colleague's views about each-other's intellectual prowess notwithstanding - if I may be allowed to hijack the preceding erudite discourse on the legality, or otherwise of disabling SS facility - I couldn't help myself (it's my inveterate curiosity), I had to buy the SS device that PetrolDave suggested on another thread

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Start...53.m1438.l2649

    My first response to Dave's suggestion was:
    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    ^^^ To add to Dave's suggestion - just a guess at what's on the Arduino shield for the eBay unit. If you buy one, please confirm.

    Don

    Well - to say that there was an economy of information that accompanied the delivery of the device would be a supreme understatement: absolutely no paperwork at all (no installation instructions and no user manual) -only the device which had a URL printed on the PCB.

    I dutifully visited the site -only to be told that it was under construction. Contacted the seller - but after a couple of attempts - still nothing!!

    So-I heated-up my soldering iron, grabbed my trusty variable DC power-supply and fished-out a couple of switches from the junk box. Assembled the lot on my workshop bench, made a few simple connections and hooked-up my multi-meter to the SSA+ and SSA- wires.

    First and reassuringly, I was correct (it doesn't happen often - so I relish each instance when it does!) - the device does indeed use a stripped-down Arduino chip (Atmel's 8 x bit AT-Tiny)

    It appears that SSA+ and SSA- operate by switching the respective wire to +12V and earth respectively (albeit SSA- seems to "float" when not switched).

    It appears that the device has 3 x operating modes:
    1. Service Mode: This is invoked by a long press (>5 seconds - I think) of the native SS switch with Terminal 15 active. I suspect that this state is intended to mimic the default SS status on the car: it appears to be a "cloaking mode" to negate any confusion when the car is serviced by the dealer/independent-workshop. The device does nothing in this state -so SS is completely controlled by the native SS switch. Repeat of the process for enabling Service Mode will disable the function.
    2. Always-OFF Mode: This is invoked by holding down the native SS switch @ Terminal 15 switch-on. After each T15 cycle, about 4 seconds later, a 2 x second pulse is sent from SSA+/SSA-. Because the default SS status is ON - this means that with ignition switch-ON, SS will be automatically switched-OFF (after about 5 x seconds) every time that the ignition key is turned-on.
    3. Memory Mode: This is the "toggle-state" if ALWAYS OFF mode is not selected. In this state, the device remembers the SS status at the previous ignition cycle. If SS was enabled in the previous ignition cycle, the device does nothing in the subsequent ignition cycle. If SS was disabled previously, the device sends a pulse in the subsequent ignition switch-ON (4 x second wait - followed by a 2 x second pulse)


    So- an interesting device - I just wish that the manufacturer/seller would use Ross-Tech's sales support philosophy in their business model!!

    Don
    PS: as for the question about legality of suppressing/deleting SS - perspective is everything IMO!! And, to the question of our individual intelligence - it's worth remembering that by definition about 50% of this forum community will have an IQ less than 100. So - ain't nothing wrong with having lots of colleagues with me on the "left-side" of the bell curve - IMO
    Last edited by DV52; 07-10-2019 at 09:50 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  4. #43
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kawzx7 View Post
    I’ll have that info for you tomorrow. Feel free to call tha numbers, speak to the agents, and give us your admission you’re wrong or dance around like a Democratic politician and act like you’re right. I’ve broken no laws and I know it, kinda reminds me of that song “I’m Sexy and I know it”.
    When you call, the thing you want to ask the agent about is whether you're allowed to "defeat" the "engine idle start-stop" AECD for which Volkswagen received "off-cycle emissions credit" per 40 CFR 86.1869-12.

    The ECU collects detailed statistics for this, which are accessible in a couple ways. One way is using VCDS in VW proprietary CAN/UDS diagnostics mode through address 01 or 19. Another is via Generic OBD2 Mode 9 PID $22 as Jack mentioned, which most OBD2 tools will see along with CARB and other state emissions test stations.

    VCDS actually doesn't see Mode 9 PID $22 at this time (among others) which is an observation I shared with with Ross-Tech a while back, but I don't think many other people have asked, and I don't think Eric will consider xkcd.com/386 as a further business justification on my part.
    Silence gives consent.

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  6. #44
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Awesome post Jason....& Don

    I'm not against knowing how stuff works or what's out there in order to be aware of what some putz might put hidden in the car.

    I take issue with people looking to disable shit that makes the cars unsafe or shout out stuff is perfectly legal to mislead some dumb bastard into hurting themselves or someone else unwittingly.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  7. #45
    Verified VCDS User TBAx's Avatar
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    Did... this thread just explode?

  8. #46
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Yeah, well it isn't often I post in the Galaxy of the "Tweaks or Retrofits" and I have my reasons because often it violates my own convictions & in many cases I believe opens my friends up to serious liabilities, what you think?

    If any post violates or assists in the circumventing of a comporting qualified repair, emission's or safety system & that could unwittingly hurt the public, it shouldn't be permitted, right?

    Isn't that why each TPMS delete request in this section or forum in general has been locked?

    I mean seriously deleting the rear third brake light or requests to turn his bright lights on with lows & at same time are not in the spirit of a retrofit or even a comporting tweak, isn't it reckless?
    Last edited by Uwe; 07-11-2019 at 09:52 AM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  9. #47
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    Thanks Jason, at time of manufacture.

  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    When you call, the thing you want to ask the agent about is whether you're allowed to "defeat" the "engine idle start-stop" AECD for which Volkswagen received "off-cycle emissions credit" per 40 CFR 86.1869-12.

    The ECU collects detailed statistics for this, which are accessible in a couple ways. One way is using VCDS in VW proprietary CAN/UDS diagnostics mode through address 01 or 19. Another is via Generic OBD2 Mode 9 PID $22 as Jack mentioned, which most OBD2 tools will see along with CARB and other state emissions test stations.

    VCDS actually doesn't see Mode 9 PID $22 at this time (among others) which is an observation I shared with with Ross-Tech a while back, but I don't think many other people have asked, and I don't think Eric will consider xkcd.com/386 as a further business justification on my part.
    I agree it can be seen, but am I a scofflaw? Hardly. As soon as I have the email from EPA, I’ll gladly inform you you’re wrong. ;-) about the emissions control device, I mean.
    Last edited by IndianaMuscle; 07-11-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    Yes, it's an emissions control device.


    FMVSS absolutely requires it, at least at time of manufacture. As for operation in any given state once you've purchased it, you may be technically correct.

    You may wish to consult this document about the real world benefits: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...l_complete.pdf I suspect the benefit may be even greater, if my guess is correct and you have tinted or smoked your primary brake lights, hard to tell.

    You may also wish to consult your insurance carrier. If someone rear-ends you, they would ordinarily be at clear fault. Right up until they, or someone nearby, has a dashcam rolling. At which point there will be a very interesting discussion between their insurance carrier, which can now assign partial blame to you, and your insurance carrier, which may have some coverage exceptions for gross or willful negligence.
    And about the rear brake light, I refer you to Indiana code, which specifies, one, minimum.

  12. #50
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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