Carbon cleaning, now stuck intake valve...

eppy · May 2, 2019

2011 GTI
135,000 miles
Chains and tensioner replaced my local VAG shop less than 5000 miles ago with OEM parts.

Car was throwing intake code 008213 for a couple of months but still getting 30MPG.
One day I was getting a miss fire so decided it was time to rip it apart.

I'm doing valve cleaning, new intake manifold, sent the injectors out for ultrasonic cleaning, and new water pump.

I noticed that the far right intake valve is not opening or closing when I turn the motor over. All other valves operate properly. I have spun the motor by hand and by cranking with the fuel pump fuse out. The valve never moves, stayed in the closed position at all times.

When I was doing the cleaning I may have spun the motor counter clockwise not knowing till after the fact to spin it clockwise. I was only spinning the motor with pulling/ pushing on the belt so I didn't get many turns on it. Even then I never remember the valve opening or closing.

When I cranked it over with the battery/ starter nothing sounded "bad".

Thoughts? Did my screw up throw something off with the timing?
Wouldn't more than one valve be doing that if that were the case?
:banghead:

.

EDIT: Someone from another forum suggested the valve may have bent BEFORE this causing the misfire.
I just pulled the codes and the codes are -
008213
000768
000770
000769
008817
000772

On another note 1 of the 4 injectors would not stop leaking and the cleaning company suggested replacing as it will leak fuel into the cylinder after the car is off.

eppy · May 2, 2019

**** sorry about the cross post *******

2011 GTI
135,000 miles
Chains and tensioner replaced my local VAG shop less than 5000 miles ago with OEM parts.

Car was throwing intake code 008213 for a couple of months but still getting 30MPG.
One day I was getting a miss fire so decided it was time to rip it apart.

I'm doing valve cleaning, new intake manifold, sent the injectors out for ultrasonic cleaning, and new water pump.

I noticed that the far right intake valve is not opening or closing when I turn the motor over. All other valves operate properly. I have spun the motor by hand and by cranking with the fuel pump fuse out. The valve never moves, stayed in the closed position at all times.

When I was doing the cleaning I may have spun the motor counter clockwise not knowing till after the fact to spin it clockwise. I was only spinning the motor with pulling/ pushing on the belt so I didn't get many turns on it. Even then I never remember the valve opening or closing.

When I cranked it over with the battery/ starter nothing sounded "bad".

Thoughts? Did my screw up throw something off with the timing?
Wouldn't more than one valve be doing that if that were the case?
:banghead:

EDIT: Someone from another forum suggested the valve may have bent BEFORE this causing the misfire.
I just pulled the codes and the codes are -
008213
000768
000770
000769
008817
000772

On another note 1 of the 4 injectors would not stop leaking and the cleaning company suggested replacing as it will leak fuel into the cylinder after the car is off.

Jack@European_Parts · May 2, 2019

Please post a complete auto-scan & OBD2 data MODES 1,3,7&9.

Is this car modified?

Have you read the entire JPPSG thread?

jyoung8607 · May 2, 2019

eppy said:
I noticed that the far right intake valve is not opening or closing when I turn the motor over. All other valves operate properly. I have spun the motor by hand and by cranking with the fuel pump fuse out. The valve never moves, stayed in the closed position at all times.

Uh... video? Having a hard time visualizing how that could happen without seriously damaged or outright missing parts.

Do you perhaps mean stuck open rather than stuck closed?

eppy said:
When I was doing the cleaning I may have spun the motor counter clockwise not knowing till after the fact to spin it clockwise. I was only spinning the motor with pulling/ pushing on the belt so I didn't get many turns on it.

Try to avoid doing that, but you probably didn't hurt anything.

eppy said:
EDIT: Someone from another forum suggested the valve may have bent BEFORE this causing the misfire.

It's a decent possibility.

eppy said:
I just pulled the codes and the codes are -
008213
000768
000770
000769
008817
000772

Complete un-edited Auto-Scan please. Looking up fault codes manually is a super PITA and we would still be missing all the fault elaboration and freeze-frame data.

rhinopower · May 3, 2019

If the valves arent moving, i would be taking the rocker cover off and see whats happening. If the camshaft snapped, are the lifters moving etc

Jack@European_Parts · May 3, 2019

Excuse me but does anyone know if carbon cleaning of plugged intakes or timing chain replacement or adjuster are now considered preventive maintenance as required in the RTFB during useful life warranties & being shifted to consumers for responsibility?

........ fəˈsēSHəs

eppy · May 3, 2019

Jack@European_Parts said:
Please post a complete auto-scan & OBD2 data MODES 1,3,7&9.

Is this car modified?

Have you read the entire JPPSG thread?

I'm sorry I did not, but have now.

Car is modified-
HPA KO4 with all supporting mods, intake, full turbo back, turbo pipes, intercooler.
Clutch, LSD, and other things that would not be related to this issue.

The codes at the bottom of the list are from trying to crank with the battery/starter with the car apart so its throwing codes for stuff that is disconnected.

Video - https://youtu.be/BeBuX9DIpdM
I start at the affected cylinder pan to the others and back to the affected one.

Code:

Thursday,02,May,2019,21:51:38:09276
VCDS Version: Release 18.9.0 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

                Address 01: Engine       Labels: 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 AS    HW: 1K0 907 115 AA
  Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010
           Software Coding: 0403010A18070160
            Work Shop Code: WSC 59851 128 16480
                      VCID: 77D309CF06E978F2EA-8022
19 Faults Found:

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
               P2015 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 212766 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2027.14.23
                    Time: 05:43:47

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2437 /min
                    Load: 58.0 %
                    Speed: 83.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 36.0°C
                    Temperature: 7.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
               P2015 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 215628 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2028.14.21
                    Time: 14:48:05

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1462 /min
                    Load: 65.1 %
                    Speed: 30.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 95.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.843 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
               P0300 - 000 -  - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 216655 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.02
                    Time: 10:56:40

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1163 /min
                    Load: 38.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 27.0°C
                    Temperature: 27.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000770 - Cylinder 2 
               P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 216655 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.02
                    Time: 10:56:44

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1119 /min
                    Load: 35.7 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 27.0°C
                    Temperature: 29.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

000769 - Cylinder 1 
               P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 216787 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.03
                    Time: 10:29:58

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 965 /min
                    Load: 33.7 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Temperature: 24.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

008817 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signal B1 S2 
               P2271 - 000 - too Rich - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217068 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.08
                    Time: 20:18:21

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2771 /min
                    Load: 10.2 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 94.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000772 - Cylinder 4 
               P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217124 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.09
                    Time: 06:22:23

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 3693 /min
                    Load: 28.2 %
                    Speed: 149.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 94.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000290 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69) 
               P0122 - 000 - Signal too Low - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

000546 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188) 
               P0222 - 000 - Signal Too Low - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

008212 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
               P2014 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

000568 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31) 
               P0238 - 000 - Signal too High
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

000400 - Fuel Pressure Sensor (G247) 
               P0190 - 000 - Circuit Malfunction
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

001152 - Coolant Fan Control Circuit 1 
               P0480 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

001092 - EVAP Purge Control Valve (N80) 
               P0444 - 000 - Circuit Open
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:21

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 209 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 10.668 V

008200 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1 
               P2008 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:21

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 209 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 10.668 V

000275 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42) 
               P0113 - 000 - Signal too High
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:21

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 215 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 10.795 V

000112 - Sensor for Ambient Air Temperature (G17) 
               P0070 - 000 - Malfunction
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:22

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 216 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 10.668 V

000835 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) 
               P0343 - 000 - Signal too High - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:23

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 215 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 10.668 V

000256 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
               P0100 - 000 - Supply Voltage
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 217197 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2029.14.10
                    Time: 00:00:24

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 200 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 18.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.684 V


Readiness: 0000 0000

jyoung8607 · May 3, 2019

eppy said:
I start at the affected cylinder pan to the others and back to the affected one.

Wow.

That valve does look reasonably well closed and sealed, although you'd have to compression test to be absolutely certain. If it was bent, it'd be stuck at least partly open. Valve cover needs to come off for further diagnosis. If you're lucky, that's just a collapsed hydraulic lifter. If you're not lucky, there's a fully wiped out cam lobe, or some other parts fell off and started dancing around.

eppy · May 3, 2019

jyoung8607 said:
Wow.

That valve does look reasonably well closed and sealed, although you'd have to compression test to be absolutely certain. If it was bent, it'd be stuck at least partly open. Valve cover needs to come off for further diagnosis. If you're lucky, that's just a collapsed hydraulic lifter. If you're not lucky, there's a fully wiped out cam lobe, or some other parts fell off and started dancing around.

100% sealed as the chamber held cleaning fluid when I was working on the valve.

Thoughts on this being a pre-existing issue that was throwing the misfire code or my shade tree ass messing something up?
I never checked the codes when it started to misfire, I drove it home, parked it, and torn it apart, thinking it was manifold/ carbon related.

The only questionable thing I did was possibly spinning the engine backwards during the cleaning.

Jack@European_Parts · May 3, 2019

Okay so no warranty, Emissions defeats and a most likely broken timing chain or sheared camshaft.

jyoung8607 · May 3, 2019

eppy said:
Thoughts on this being a pre-existing issue that was throwing the misfire code or my shade tree ass messing something up?
...
The only questionable thing I did was possibly spinning the engine backwards during the cleaning.

There's an excellent probability this was the origin of your misfire.

There's no possible way you did that by rolling the engine backwards a little by hand.

Valve cover needs to come off for further diagnosis. I think Jack might be right about just outright breaking the camshaft.

eppy · May 3, 2019

I think the car will be heading to the shop for any further investigation.

I hope that this has nothing to do with the chains and tensioner work they did less than 5000 miles ago...... :confused:

Thanks for the help guys.

MVB_ · May 3, 2019

Why not pull the PCV on this TSI and take a look at the intake cam valve train for #4. Maybe the rocker is missing. Example from FSI "race car" that was over revved.

eppy · May 3, 2019

MVB said:
Why not pull the PCV on this TSI and take a look at the intake cam valve train for #4. Maybe the rocker is missing. Example from FSI "race car" that was over revved.

MVB,

I'll pull the PVC this weekend and look, I didn't know that was an option.

The car did have an over rev years ago. 4th to 1st I think, locked the front wheels, one and only time I have done that in 27 years of driving.
The car didn't show any ill symptoms so I just kept driving it.

Maybe the rocker was "hanging in there" and finally gave up?

Uwe · May 3, 2019

eppy said:
**** sorry about the cross post *******

Threads merged into the General VW/Audi Repair section, which is the right place for this because a strictly mechanical problem like this has doesn't have much if anything to do with with VCDS.

-Uwe-

MVB_ · May 3, 2019

eppy said:
MVB,

I'll pull the PVC this weekend and look, I didn't know that was an option.

The car did have an over rev years ago. 4th to 1st I think, locked the front wheels, one and only time I have done that in 27 years of driving.
The car didn't show any ill symptoms so I just kept driving it.

Maybe the rocker was "hanging in there" and finally gave up?

You will have a nice widow to take a look-see

Jack@European_Parts · May 3, 2019

Threads merged into the General VW/Audi Repair section, which is the right place for this because a strictly mechanical problem like this has doesn't have much if anything to do with with VCDS.

-Uwe-

Yeah!..........and diagnostics are crippled anyway & causing VCDS to operate blind! :cry:

Tear it down OP!

PICTURES!

Pick a card any card & that labels the percent of catastrophic damage!

eppy · May 3, 2019

Jack@European_Parts said:
Yeah!..........and diagnostics are crippled anyway & causing VCDS to operate blind!

Tear it down OP!

PICTURES!

Pick a card any card & that labels the percent of catastrophic damage!

I'll report back with pics. :cry:

Zenerdiode · May 3, 2019

If a hydraulic lifter had bled down completely (burst or something) would it still produce even a little lift? However, as Max has suggested, you may have popped a rocker sometime...

p.s. Watching your little video; turning the engine over by hand, I can tell you are turning it correctly due to 1-3-4-2-(1). That sequence is burned into my head.

jyoung8607 · May 3, 2019

Zenerdiode said:
If a hydraulic lifter had bled down completely (burst or something) would it still produce even a little lift? However, as Max has suggested, you may have popped a rocker sometime...

On reflection, I would think so, yeah. I don't know if they can even collapse that far mechanically if empty. The hydraulic component is just there to take up lash.

Something pretty awesome happened. Could be an ejected rocker arm, sheared camshaft, dunno. Looking forward to finding out. That PCV cover is will be a great window.

Carbon cleaning, now stuck intake valve...

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