2.0 FSI Poor idle when cold 2005 Mk5 Golf BLX Engine

Saabman · Apr 12, 2019

My Daughters Golf has developed an issue where after the car has been sitting for more than 5 hours the idle is high around 1200 rpm and rough for around 20seconds when it will drop to around 800rpm and run smooth.
If the engine is started then immediately stopped and then restarted the idle is fine.

This is what it looks like.

When scanning I found there was no label file for this ecu/engine so I have used the label file from the BLY engine which made some sense but there is some holes in the measuring block values. In particular MB 145 from http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/140-147.html

it lists 145 as
Exhaust gas temperature from model Bank 1

and 146 is
Exhaust gas temperature sensor measured Bank 1

when doing a full MVB scan before starting the engine I get figures like this (when 145 is around 760 the engine runs bad if its around 20 (ambient temp) the engine runs fine.)

Note as soon as the engine starts 145 drops to around 24 this is irrespective of the engine running rough or not.

145 762.0°C Temperature 18.0°C Temperature
146 18.0°C Temperature 1 (no units) Test OFF

Id realy love to know what 145 refers to and what would cause it to be sometimes at around 760 (and engine runs bad ) and sometime at 24 (engine runs good)

here is a sample of a log when the car starts bad

Code:

Group B:	'010				Group C:	'145	
	RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Temperature	Temperature
TIME					TIME		
STAMP	 /min	 %	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP	°C	°C
0.08	0	100	7.8	0	0.26	762	24
0.58	0	100	7.8	0	0.74	762	24
1.08	0	100	7.8	0	1.23	762	24
1.56	0	100	7.8	0	1.72	762	24
2.03	0	100	7.8	0	2.2	762	24
2.51	0	100	7.8	0	2.67	762	24
2.99	0	100	7.8	0	3.15	762	24
3.48	0	100	7.8	0	3.63	762	24
3.94	0	100	7.8	0	4.12	762	24
4.44	0	100	7.8	0	4.59	762	24
4.92	0	100	7.8	0	5.08	762	24
5.41	0	100	7.8	0	5.56	762	24
5.86	0	100	7.8	0	6.04	762	24
6.35	0	100	7.8	0	6.51	762	24
6.84	0	100	7.8	0	7	762	24
7.32	0	100	7.8	0	7.48	762	24
7.79	0	100	7.8	0	7.96	762	24
8.28	200	100	2.4	0	8.43	24	24
8.76	800	51.1	2.4	0	8.92	24	24
9.24	1600	27.8	5.1	-15	9.4	24	24
9.72	1680	21.1	6.3	0.8	9.89	24	24
10.2	1720	18.8	5.9	-4.5	10.35	24	24
10.67	1400	20.3	7.5	-3	10.82	24	24
11.16	1240	26.3	7.8	-7.5	11.32	24	24
11.65	1160	42.1	11.4	-18.8	11.81	24	24
12.13	1120	47.4	11	-18.8	12.29	24	24
12.6	1120	48.1	11	-19.5	12.77	24	24
13.09	1120	47.4	10.6	-18.8	13.25	24	24
13.58	1160	48.9	11.4	-21.8	13.73	24	30
14.04	1160	48.9	11	-23.3	14.22	24	30
14.53	1120	49.6	11	-21.8	14.68	24	30
15.01	1120	48.1	11	-19.5	15.17	24	30
15.49	1160	48.1	11	-22.5	15.65	24	36
15.96	1080	51.1	11.8	-18.8	16.13	24	36
16.44	1160	50.4	11.8	-23.3	16.6	24	36
16.94	1160	50.4	11.8	-22.5	17.09	24	36

Code:

Sunday,03,March,2019,15:23:11:36504
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64(Parallels)
VCDS Version 18.9.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ5U010699   License Plate: ASY44A
Mileage: 158560km-98524mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ5U010699   Mileage: 158560km-98524miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: User\06F-906-056-DE.lbl
   Part No SW: 06F 906 056 DE    HW: Hardware No 
   Component: MED9.5.10       G00 7224  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0401577
   Coding: 0000072
   Shop #: WSC 20072 959 64529
   VCID: 6FEDAE5F7E13943234-803B

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 06F 907 807 F
   Component: NOX  0501120037 002 0409
   06F907807F  NOX  0501120037 002 0409   

4 Faults Found:
17700 - Map Controlled Engine Cooling Thermostat (F265) 
            P1292 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys 
            P0441 - 008 - Incorrect Flow - MIL ON
17441 - Sensor for NOx (G295) 
            P1033 - 002 - Signal too Low - MIL ON
17834 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80) 
            P1426 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
Readiness: 0010 0001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK70.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 379 N
   Component: ASR FRONT MK70      0103  
   Coding: 0017025
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 3D71441764FF36A2F6-8069

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 820 047 CR
   Component: Climatic PQ35   081 0404  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 76E39B3B0149A5FAF7-8023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 937 049 S    HW: 1K0 937 049 S*
   Component: Bordnetz-SG 1.0 H30 0704  
   Revision: 00H30000    Serial number: 00000001062703
   Coding: E48C0F0600041800001600001400000000
   Shop #: WSC 20073 959 67745
   VCID: 3F8D3E1F6EF324B2E4-806B

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 B  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer VW350  012  0401  
   Coding: 00049109
   Shop #: WSC 20073  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 M  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
   Component: RegenLichtSens 005  0605  
   Coding: 00217125
   Shop #: WSC 20073  

2 Faults Found:
02071 - Local Databus 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01064 - Terminal 58d; Interior Dimming 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 H    HW: 1K0 909 605 H
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW8   023 0700  
   Revision: 06023000    Serial number: 00385D0MN952  
   Coding: 0012340
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 31696827A8A7C2C262-8065

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME293E2505 

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME323C6205 

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME504D6C03 

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME3F566903 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 B    HW: 1K0 953 549 B
   Component: Lenks‰ulenmodul 013 0010  
   Coding: 0002042
   Shop #: WSC 20073 959 86037
   VCID: 31696827A8A7C2C262-8065

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
   Component: Lenkradmodul    004 0030

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 920 861 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 0814  
   Coding: 0003703
   Shop #: WSC 20056 959 15675
   VCID: 275D867F96638C72BC-8073

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 E    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: Gateway         H09 0110  
   Revision: 09          Serial number: 27001048310275
   Coding: 3D3F0340070003
   Shop #: WSC 20073 959 86037
   VCID: 295980478077BA02AA-807D

2 Faults Found:
01305 - Databus for Infotainment 
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 26
                    Mileage: 158465 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:13:42

01304 - Radio 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 66
                    Mileage: 158471 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:26:49


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No: 1K0 920 861 A
   Component: IMMO            VDD 0814  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 275D867F96638C72BC-8073

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 701 E
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0148  
   Coding: 0000052
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 306F6D23A3ADCBCA6D-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V2.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 G
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.0       1301  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 306F6D23A3ADCBCA6D-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
   Part No: 1K0 959 433 BL
   Component: 01 KSG              0301  
   Coding: 82C802087F2D8404085F018010
   Shop #: WSC 20073 959 67745
   VCID: 7BF58A0F3A6BF89288-802F

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted     

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted     

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted     

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0148  
   Coding: 0000052
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 31696827A8A7C2C262-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 703 C
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 06 0213  
   Coding: 0000016
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 306F6D23A3ADCBCA6D-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 704 C
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 06 0213  
   Coding: 0000016
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 31696827A8A7C2C262-8065

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 01:56)--------------------------

Uwe · Apr 12, 2019

If it were mine, I'd start by trying to correct whatever is causing those four fault codes in the engine. In fact, I'd go after the "Open Circuit" ones first, since that's relatively straightforward to trouble-shoot.

-Uwe-

Fredrick Awuor · Apr 14, 2019

Blx motor is notorious for Nitrogen Oxide sender failure...just as Uwe has aforementioned... fix that as well as the multiple evap errors,and check map cooling thermostat as well...with all those codes the motor won't run right....

NZDubNurd · Apr 14, 2019

The 2.0 FSI suffers from vacuum leaks on the dipstick (the tube breaks) and breather hoses - probably not your problem, but may contribute.

I understand the NOX storage catalyst does a "Regen", similar to what a DPF does. If the sensor is faulty, they run a default mode, then doesn't do anybody any favours long term.

The Map-Control thermostat being faulty may also mean you're running the mechanical thermostat max temp all the time - I believe that means 105C? - If the electrical part isn't functioning, the ECU can't run the engine cooler than that, when it wants to.

I'd seriously look at all the faults, before focusing on the idle issue

As a side note, depending on how far you want to go, and how long you plan on owning this car:
2006 models (at least here in NZ!) were available with the BVY engine - same basic engine block as yours, but standard thermostat control, no NOX storage cat, and they stopped running stratified mode (which I think is why they no longer need the NOX-cat, it doesn't run as lean, so not an issue). I have considered swapping to this control unit, and swapping the exhaust, just to avoid the NOX issues. I ended up getting the BVY engine in the two vehicles I purchased anyway

https://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk5/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_(2.0_l_engine_direct_injection)/technical_data/engine_data/

Saabman · Apr 14, 2019

Thanks for the responses.
Getting parts for this engine is near on impossible in Australia... I have a new purge valve on order and hopefully will get it installed Shortly which will fix the evap issue. Currently valve is removed and pipe blocked.

The NOx sensor was replaced recently with what was allegedly a good second hand unit but we all know how that story works out.....
If the NOx sensor only effects the charge mode Ill live with that issue

Im really keen to find the data that links the faults to the symptom. At moment my head is focused on what the meaning of MB 145 is as it is clearly different prior to the engine starting and from just looking at that one figure I can tell weather the engine will start and run rough or start and run smooth.

Please dont take any of my comments as been dismissive of your suggestions and advice Im trying to work through the analysis of the fault as thoroughly as possible. The car lives 200km away so I have to work through a solution order parts then either send them for my daughter to fit or organize to get the car into my shed to do the work- Ive seen where that damn MAP thermostat lives and there is going to have to be some really good reason to change that :lol:

Yes I have also considered doing something similar regarding the BVY engine control - but come the end of the day if all I end up with is the engine light on and slightly reduced performance/efficiency we can live with that - engine light on is not a reason to fail registration in Australia yet ;-)

NZDubNurd · Apr 15, 2019

Saabman said:
I’ve seen where that damn MAP thermostat lives and there is going to have to be some really good reason to change that :lol:

Hahahaha! No kidding! It's not as hard as it first appears... but when I got to mine, then discovered I had the wrong replacement... the whole engine came out and the Golf R32 3.2 VR6 drivetrain went in

Saabman · Apr 15, 2019

I had the manifold out to inspect the quantity of build up on the valves and thought maybe I could do it from that angle so ordered one only to find it was the wrong one as well so I gave up at that point... should have got a new engine instead as well :lol:

Saabman · Jun 23, 2019

Ive been working through trying to understand the operation of the engine to gain an understanding of the problems.

I managed to get hold of the MED9.5.1 FR in German so not been a german speaker (I should have paid more attention to my father) Ive been throwing sections of it at google translate and trying to format it in some sensible fashion. Its no work of art and some of the language still needs some massaging but it is readable and offers some insight into the ECU operation.

I've done the index and have been picking sections that I think are interesting and going from there.

What I have done so far is available here https://github.com/saabman/MED9.5.1

2.0 FSI Poor idle when cold 2005 Mk5 Golf BLX Engine

Saabman

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Uwe

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Fredrick Awuor

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NZDubNurd

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Saabman

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NZDubNurd

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Saabman

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Saabman

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