ASAM/ROD updates through the USB utility

No it won't work.
Just because the cable had the 'right' connection does not mean it would function, especially since I doubt the HN has the capability to use a USB<->Ethernet adapter anyway.

Plus my garage is almost 1'000 feet away...

jyoung8607 said:

Now that we understand the design (whether or not we agree with it) we are in a better place.

Click to expand...

I think this wraps it up Jason.

Conclusion: You must have a computer, must connect via USB, and must use a utility to keep HEX-NET up to date.

jakematic said:

I think this wraps it up Jason.

Conclusion: You must have a computer, must connect via USB, and must use a utility to keep HEX-NET up to date.

Click to expand...

You've got some problem with syncing ROD data, that's all.

We understand there's no sign on your house that says broken ROD list storage, because storing broken ROD lists isn't your job.



Uwe says you ain't got no problem, Jake. He says go back in the house and chill those HEX-NETs out, and wait for Shaun who should be coming directly.



Alright?

jyoung8607 said:

You've got some problem with syncing ROD data, that's all.

Click to expand...

No one at Ross-Tech will confirm or deny except Shaun saying the USB utility does different things.
Which is also a non answer.

So you and I are just theorizing, and HEX-NETs are going back in storage.

jakematic said:

No it won't work.
Just because the cable had the 'right' connection does not mean it would function, especially since I doubt the HN has the capability to use a USB<->Ethernet adapter anyway.

Plus my garage is almost 1'000 feet away...

Click to expand...

Well, even if that adapter doesn't have the correct circuit inside it then just use the Apple one, one of the USB gender changers, and a Cat5 Ethernet cable once you've wired your garage.

Yes, 1000 feet is a little long for a "temporary" connection; how do you travel between house & garage, Segway?

Everybody relax

It looks like there was a minor timing issue with the speed the rod info is being sent from the HEX-NET, which could cause some of the rod info to be skipped. I made some tweaks to the timing here, which has fixed the issue for me. As with many things, this comes down to balancing performance vs. reliability on a higher latency connection. This tweak will be in the next codeblock update, and then we can do some more testing and see if the issue is resolved for you or if we need to tweak some things further.

Best,
--Shaun

Shaun said:

Everybody relax

Click to expand...

I'm cool on this end, but I think Jake is going to eat a frisbee unless we get an Official Ross-Tech Statement on some things. Can you help us out?

1) True/False: You must have a computer, must connect via USB, and must use a utility to keep HEX-NET up to date.

2) In the USB updater, what is a BL object? Does anyone NOT using the USB updater care if it's out-of-date?

3) In the USB updater, what is a CFB object? Does anyone NOT using the USB updater care if it's out-of-date?

Thanks!

Jason

1) True/False: You must have a computer, must connect via USB, and must use a utility to keep HEX-NET up to date.

Click to expand...

You do not need a computer to update the HEX-NET. The USB utility is an alternative that may be better or easier in certain situations, such as if you are unable to tether or have bad cell signal. The exception to this may be certain recovery type things which we may not wish to do over the air.

2) In the USB updater, what is a BL object? Does anyone NOT using the USB updater care if it's out-of-date?

3) In the USB updater, what is a CFB object? Does anyone NOT using the USB updater care if it's out-of-date?

Click to expand...

These are bootloader and filesystem related items. We do not expect these to be updated very often, if at all.

Shaun said:

You do not need a computer to update the HEX-NET. The USB utility is an alternative that may be better or easier in certain situations, such as if you are unable to tether or have bad cell signal. The exception to this may be certain recovery type things which we may not wish to do over the air.

Click to expand...

Excellent!

Using the utility in a backup/rescue scenario is understood. We're just trying to understand day-to-day normal operations.

Shaun said:

These are bootloader and filesystem related items. We do not expect these to be updated very often, if at all.

Click to expand...

Okay, but those were two-part questions. Does anyone NOT using the USB updater care if it's out-of-date?

If I'm updating OTA only, I won't have gotten the updated BL/CFB objects you sent out a couple months ago. If I'm working fine with just OTA updates, then I didn't actually need those BL/CFB updates, so why did they get pushed out at all? On the flip side, if I do have to have those BL/CFB updates, then "You do not need a computer to update the HEX-NET" isn't really a true statement.

I've been ass-u-ming the BL/CFB updates were in service of the USB update process, thus both statements can be true: they're delivered via USB only, and OTA users don't care about them. As you can see, though, it's become something of a hot topic so we'd like to know for sure.

Jason

I don't want to go into too much detail about what is being done there on the low level, but it is quite possible to be running an older version of these things without ill effect. At some point, a minimum version may be needed for certain things, and a mandatory update may be required, possibly via USB. That would be on a case by case basis. It is also quite possible that in the future some of these things might be updated OTA, that is again a case by case basis. Since I don't know the future, I can't say for sure what this will look like. But I can say that we at least have the USB utility now as an option.

--Shaun

romad said:

Won't this give you a complete cable route from your router in your house to your HN after you upgrade the garage:

Click to expand...

USB is only spec'd for five meters, and that's over shielded cable, not UTP. Anything longer than that requires an active extension, and those get more sketchy the further you go.

If you only have wired Ethernet, the most correct thing to do is buy a $25 access point, even if HEX-NET is the only client that will use it.

Jason

Shaun said:

I don't want to go into too much detail about what is being done there on the low level ...

Click to expand...

I understand there are components within HEX-NET you can't talk much about, for good and valid reasons, and that's fine.

So here's where we landed:

1) You do NOT need a computer to update the HEX-NET at this time. All regular updates are available OTA.

2) Aside from BL/CFB, if the USB and OTA upgrade processes don't agree, there is a bug and we should report it.

3) Under rare circumstances, in the distant unseen future, there is a non-zero chance that BL/CFB will need a one-off USB update.

Correct?

Jason

I think that's essentially correct.

-Uwe-

jyoung8607 said:

USB is only spec'd for five meters, and that's over shielded cable, not UTP. Anything longer than that requires an active extension, and those get more sketchy the further you go.

If you only have wired Ethernet, the most correct thing to do is buy a $25 access point, even if HEX-NET is the only client that will use it.

Jason

Click to expand...

I was envisioning the USB cable+Adapter to be used from an RJ-45 jack in the garage that was only about 10 feet from the car being tested. However once he has Ethernet cabling all the way from his house to the garage, he could then use another Cat5 cable to the car, an Ethernet-to-USB adapter/converter, an USB gender changer, and the USB A to B cable. It would eliminate WiFi per his desire. The problem would be finding the best adapter/converter.

jakematic said:

No one at Ross-Tech will confirm or deny except Shaun saying the USB utility does different things.
Which is also a non answer.

Click to expand...

I think the Way of Things has been clearly stated now. OTA and USB updates are equal for everything we care about.

jakematic said:

So you and I are just theorizing, and HEX-NETs are going back in storage.

Click to expand...

If it makes you feel better, I scanned a UDS car today and now I'm stuck on the ROD update fail-boat with you.

Jason

jyoung8607 said:

If it makes you feel better, I scanned a UDS car today and now I'm stuck on the ROD update fail-boat with you.

Click to expand...

Yes, that part is clearly not working as reliably as we'd like.

-Uwe-

Uwe said:

Yes, that part is clearly not working as reliably as we'd like.

Click to expand...

With apologies to George Thorogood:

Ross-Tech will get me Mobile tomorrow, the next day, I don't know. That don't confront me, long as I get my wireless Desktop today.

Jason