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Thread: ASAM/ROD updates through the USB utility

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    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    ASAM/ROD updates through the USB utility

    Jake and I have been having a spirited discussion about this, and we can't seem to get to the bottom of it.

    • FW, CB, and DS updates can be applied either OTA or USB. Fine and good.
    • CFB and BL updates can only be applied via USB, but those are almost never needed. Also fine and good.
    • ... but what exactly is a ROD update from the USB utility?

    I thought ASAM/ROD data was either dynamically downloaded during Mobile Auto-Scans, or packaged as part of a DS update. I'm fairly sure I saw ROD files being extracted in DS 29. What's the separate ROD update stage about, and why might the USB updater show it out-of-date when your other software modules are up-to-date?

    Let me ask the same question in a slightly different way:

    Let's say I own, oh I dunno... a 2012 Audi A8L. I have a HEX-NET interface, and an Android phone with a hotspot. My HEX-NET is successfully hooked up to my Android hotspot and OTA updates are working for me. I don't own a PC or laptop of any sort. No USB updates will ever be performed. Am I going to have a happy HEX-NET experience, or am I going to have problems for lack of this ROD data update?

    Jason

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    Let's say I own, oh I dunno... a 2012 Audi A8L. I have a HEX-NET interface, and an Android phone with a hotspot. My HEX-NET is successfully hooked up to my Android hotspot and OTA updates are working for me. I don't own a PC or laptop of any sort. No USB updates will ever be performed. Am I going to have a happy HEX-NET experience, or am I going to have problems for lack of this ROD data update?
    In principle, you should have a happy HEX-NET experience. But whether it actually works as intended 100% reliably, well, I'm not totally confident in that just yet.

    Does anyone seriously not own (or have access to) a PC (whether running Linux or Windows or Max OS)? Mobile devices are cool, but I can't imagine not having a real computer around somewhere too.

    The ability to update via USB is both a backup for those who primarily use mobile devices, and a convenience to who will primarily use the HEX-NET as an interface for the Windows version of VCDS. Some of those guys simply aren't going to want to be bothered trying to get their HEX-NET itself on-line.

    -Uwe-

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    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    In principle, you should have a happy HEX-NET experience. But whether it actually works as intended 100% reliably, well, I'm not totally confident in that just yet.
    Sure, the utility has a backup/rescue role to play. We were trying to settle whether it's necessary to use by design, under ideal conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Does anyone seriously not own (or have access to) a PC (whether running Linux or Windows or Max OS)? Mobile devices are cool, but I can't imagine not having a real computer around somewhere too.
    It's an extreme example. Jake and I were continuing this discussion via PM. Jake asked a question about ROD updates a while back, which Shaun answered. Jake reads Shaun's answer (and your follow-up) to mean those ROD updates aren't available OTA, thus he now has a PC dependency that didn't exist before. I don't think that's correct, but I also don't know what exactly a ROD update is in this context, so we're asking for clarification.

    Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Does anyone seriously not own (or have access to) a PC (whether running Linux or Windows or Max OS)?
    Yes. It is the trend and it's a very strong trend.
    It's also a huge [read: the MAIN] selling point for HN.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    a convenience to who will primarily use the HEX-NET as an interface for the Windows version of VCDS
    Why would anyone do that unless you plan to stop selling the other models ?


    And now back to our original question:
    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    thus he now has a PC dependency that didn't exist before. I don't think that's correct, but I also don't know what exactly a ROD update is in this context, so we're asking for clarification.
    Last edited by jakematic; 11-18-2014 at 10:20 PM. Reason: add'l thoughts


    2012 A8L 4.2 Oolong/Titanium. Premium, LED, Driver assist, Rear seat comfort, Dual pane, Alcantara, Panorama

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakematic View Post
    Why would anyone do that unless you plan to stop selling the other models ?
    Now that one I have an answer for.

    I just had to solder a new cable assembly into my HUC because of wear and tear. It's been tripped over about 16,384 times, pinched in car doors, etc. At the best of times you have trouble getting in/out of the car holding a connected laptop, or you're having to balance a laptop over the center console or twist around to use it on the passenger seat.

    Now unless I really need it inside the car, my laptop usually sits on my workbench. It's at a comfortable access angle either sitting or standing. It's out of physical danger. It's on AC power so I'm not working against a clock. Getting in and out of the car is easy, no tangles, no balancing act. No worries about breaking or denting stuff when opening and closing doors. I can walk all the way around the car without tripping. I can see the laptop display while I'm working under the hood.

    Seriously, screw cables. HEX-NET would be worth the $50 uplift over HUC even if Mobile didn't exist. This is the only way to fly.

    Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    Seriously, screw cables. HEX-NET would be worth the $50 uplift over HUC even if Mobile didn't exist. This is the only way to fly.
    You mean $150... for equivalent functionality.
    Have a look around all the forums and you'll see people asking about compatibility - so they can buy the least expensive interface that will do the job.

    Your argument is precisely why so many are licking their chops looking at a standalone solution like HN.

    Unless I'm reading this wrongly, people with laptops ALWAYS want to be cabled:
    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    a convenience to who will primarily use the HEX-NET as an interface for the Windows version of VCDS. Some of those guys simply aren't going to want to be bothered trying to get their HEX-NET itself on-line.

    -Uwe-




    And now back to our original question:
    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    thus he now has a PC dependency that didn't exist before. I don't think that's correct, but I also don't know what exactly a ROD update is in this context, so we're asking for clarification.
    Last edited by jakematic; 11-18-2014 at 10:36 PM. Reason: add'l quote


    2012 A8L 4.2 Oolong/Titanium. Premium, LED, Driver assist, Rear seat comfort, Dual pane, Alcantara, Panorama

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    Ross-Tech Employee Sebastian's Avatar
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    Many of the professionals I talked to over the last years indicated that they are eager to get their hands on the HEX-NET, not because of VCDS-Mobile but because of the wireless solution for their existing VCDS. No more tripping over cables bundled with higher speeds and of course, the cable is still there as a backup if needed. Those guys will not use VCDS-Mobile much in the first place and updates are likely be run via USB anyway.

    I believe the guys kicked around some ideas about the OTA updates before, maybe the whole process will get some major overhauling once the other things settle a bit?
    Sebastian @ Ross-Tech.com // VCDS Rookie since 2003

    »Nichts erweitert das eigene Wissen mehr,
    als die Meinung eines Andersdenkenden.«

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    It's an extreme example. Jake and I were continuing this discussion via PM. Jake asked a question about ROD updates a while back, which Shaun answered. Jake reads Shaun's answer (and your follow-up) to mean those ROD updates aren't available OTA, thus he now has a PC dependency that didn't exist before. I don't think that's correct, but I also don't know what exactly a ROD update is in this context, so we're asking for clarification.
    Right, there is no new PC dependency that didn't exist before.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakematic View Post
    Why would anyone do that [use a HEX-NET primarily with a PC] unless you plan to stop selling the other models ?
    Because it's wireless. Because it's faster. Because it should be more reliable with certain "difficult" modules and cantankerous PCs. Although we don't plan to stop selling the HEX-USB+CAN in the near term, it is now an 11 year old design. It's not very intelligent; it has room for a whopping 16 kB of code in it, and it's dang close to full. It forces the PC to do much of the heavy lifting in terms of the real-time response that certain "difficult" modules require (which is why running VCDS in a VM is "unsupported"). One possibility is that we will eventually replace it with a HEX-NET derived wired interface; basically a HEX-NET that doesn't have the (expensive) WiFi module or the on-board data storage. Obviously, OTA updates would not be possible for such an interface.

    -Uwe-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Many of the professionals I talked to over the last years indicated that they are eager to get their hands on the HEX-NET, not because of VCDS-Mobile but because of the wireless solution for their existing VCDS.
    I can absolutely see that - we all know how much fun a laptop in a vehicle can be
    I'd lose my mind doing that for a living with a cable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Right, there is no new PC dependency that didn't exist before.
    So the update Shaun mentioned (and I was able to get on 1 HN but not the other) that is only available via the USB utility was one-off and will be fixed later ?
    Edit: Or are you saying a dependency existed already ?

    When I posed the question due to my own concern I immediately got PMs asking "What? I need a computer now?"
    I need to make sure I'm giving your current and prospective customer the correct information.
    Last edited by jakematic; 11-19-2014 at 08:50 AM.


    2012 A8L 4.2 Oolong/Titanium. Premium, LED, Driver assist, Rear seat comfort, Dual pane, Alcantara, Panorama

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    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Right, there is no new PC dependency that didn't exist before.
    Okay, that's good.

    So what exactly is this, and why do we need it, and what are the consequences of not having it?



    I have been discussing theories with Jake, but it would be useful to know the facts.

    Jason

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