Need Cruise Control logic and ECU in information for 2004 Passat TDI

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vwztips

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Took a 2004 Passat GLS wagon 4motion 1.8t 5 speed manual and swapped in a BHW TDI engine and Euro-spec Quattro 5 speed manual. Everything works as the factory intended except the cruise. This is not my first rodeo and have not had any major issues getting cruise to work in similar projects.

When diagnosing the cruise, all brake, clutch and cruise stalk switches show up in VCDS 01-Engine, block 6, columns 2 and 4. They turn 0 or 1 as they should when switch is activated. Tuner has put in appropriate gear ratios, but cruise will not engage.

Notes:
1. The BHW TDI uses EDC16 (038 997 016 T) and only came mated to an automatic and ABS (5.7 Motronic 4B0 614 517 G) with ESP. ECU communicated with ABS via CAN
2. Speed is provided to ECU via VSS in transmission (not by ABS) for both ECU's
3. The AWM (4B0 906 018 DP) gasser with 4motion manual uses the 5.3 Bosch ABS (8E0 614 111 A, ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10) but does not communicate via CAN, but a single wire directly connected to the ECU
4. CAN gateway for BHW was set at 00006 and the 4mo was set at 00004. Have tried both settings.
5. Tried the instrument cluster from the BHW, the AWM and a euro-spec cluster from a B5.5 Passat TDI which was coupled to a EDC15 ECU. None of them made a difference.

I suspect that the BHW ECU not seeing a handshake or signal from the ABS is keeping the cruise from engaging. However, I converted a 2001 AllRoad to a BHW TDI and manual gearbox. It had the same ABS module as the 4motion and cruise worked on it. (I did have to supply an analog tach signal from pin # T94/28 on the BHW ECU to fire the AllRoad tachometer and HVAC system).

Does anyone have access to the ladder logic for the cruise system? The other thing I would like to know is if there is an "analog" input (or output) pin on the BHW ECU that I could run to the ABS pin?

If someone has any insight I would appreciate it.

Thank you
 
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Yep, did that. It is activated and the corresponding G is in the upper right
 
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Just for good measure I deactivated cruise and reactivated it last night.
 
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jyoung8607

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vwztips said:
When diagnosing the cruise, all brake, clutch and cruise stalk switches show up in VCDS 01-Engine, block 6, columns 2 and 4. They turn 0 or 1 as they should when switch is activated. Tuner has put in appropriate gear ratios, but cruise will not engage.
Click to expand...
Hrm. You kinda hit the high points for cruise disabling... enabled with the login, brake clutch and cruise signals good, (allegedly) no gear ratio mismatch. That said...

vwztips said:
Notes:
1. The BHW TDI uses EDC16 (038 997 016 T) and only came mated to an automatic and ABS (5.7 Motronic 4B0 614 517 G) with ESP. ECU communicated with ABS via CAN
Click to expand...
If the BHW never came in a manual variant, sometimes there's an unusually deep root-canal necessary to convert it to manual, beyond most tuners. Not all ECUs can just be switched with coding. Sure they did this right? Is this ECU still looking for an auto transmission?

vwztips said:
2. Speed is provided to ECU via VSS in transmission (not by ABS) for both ECU's
3. The AWM (4B0 906 018 DP) gasser with 4motion manual uses the 5.3 Bosch ABS (8E0 614 111 A, ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10) but does not communicate via CAN, but a single wire directly connected to the ECU
Click to expand...
I am also not super stoked about the 5.7 to 5.3 ABS change. Among other things, remember that brake light switches F and F47 get routed to (I believe) the ECU and ABS modules separately, and then cross-checked for validity, with each other and against master cylinder pressure. That cross-check requires some data interchange. Any fault here will almost certainly kill cruise control.

I believe you that you've made this conversion work in the past, but I'd like to see complete un-edited Auto-Scans from both. Even if (especially if!) there are faults you may have considered benign so far.
 
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Following up to myself...

jyoung8607 said:
If the BHW never came in a manual variant, sometimes there's an unusually deep root-canal necessary to convert it to manual, beyond most tuners. Not all ECUs can just be switched with coding. Sure they did this right? Is this ECU still looking for an auto transmission?
Click to expand...
Poking around at PL24, I see no indication there's separate ECU part numbers/calibrations for transmission variants, except for the W8. So I think you are good here, if the ECU is coded correctly. Would still like to see those Auto-Scans.

Edit: ... but if it never came in a manual variant, there wouldn't be a manual ECU part number, so maybe you're not good.

jyoung8607 said:
I am also not super stoked about the 5.7 to 5.3 ABS change. Among other things, remember that brake light switches F and F47 get routed to (I believe) the ECU and ABS modules separately, and then cross-checked for validity, with each other and against master cylinder pressure. That cross-check requires some data interchange. Any fault here will almost certainly kill cruise control.
Click to expand...
Both ABS parts you quoted seem to be valid for this model-year of Passat, depending on equipment. I don't have an easy way to see which one(s) were included in cars built with BHW engines.
 
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Uwe

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jyoung8607 said:
but if it never came in a manual variant, there wouldn't be a manual ECU part number, so maybe you're not good.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the BHW engine was unique to the NAR Passat and was never offered with a manual trans.

-Uwe-
 
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jyoung8607 said:
If the BHW never came in a manual variant, sometimes there's an unusually deep root-canal necessary to convert it to manual, beyond most tuners. Not all ECUs can just be switched with coding. Sure they did this right? Is this ECU still looking for an auto transmission?

I am also not super stoked about the 5.7 to 5.3 ABS change. Among other things, remember that brake light switches F and F47 get routed to (I believe) the ECU and ABS modules separately, and then cross-checked for validity, with each other and against master cylinder pressure. That cross-check requires some data interchange. Any fault here will almost certainly kill cruise control.

I believe you that you've made this conversion work in the past, but I'd like to see complete un-edited Auto-Scans from both. Even if (especially if!) there are faults you may have considered benign so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Yes ECU is coded for manual. Have worked with Mike at TDTuning on the past 30 Passat TDI auto to manual conversions and have that part figured, I believe LOL.
Interesting note is that most Passat TDI's came with the 5.7 Bosch ABS (ESP) and required simple soft recoding. Maybe 2 of my conversions had the 5.3 Bosch ABS (ASR) which I did not recode but reset the ABS with a 6 speed manual option (even though it was a 5 speed) and it worked fine. This ABS module will not take any coding or option box checking at all.

As for the F and F47, I will check that. I don't think they are separate but will verify tonight.

Here is the complete scan of the 4mo. Unfortunately I cannot find, my scan of the AllRoad. Sold it 2 years ago.

Code: 
Tuesday,11,December,2018,23:30:54:45329
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.0.2 (x64)
Data version: 20180927 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWVD63B14E268770   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 3B (3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77
         
 
VIN: WVWVD63B14E268770   Mileage: 149000km-92584miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
   Part No SW: 038 997 016 T    HW: 028 101 198 2
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC 0000SG  0314  
   Revision: 12345678    Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
   Coding: 0150031
   Shop #: WSC 05311 257 00032
   VCID: 2F6608FFBDAC5D327C-515A

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 614 111 A
   Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10  
   Shop #: BB 24334  
   VCID: 1C3CCF338C1AD6AA29-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 C
   Component: 09 AIRBAG VW61 04   0003  
   Coding: 12345
   Shop #: WSC 05311  
   VCID: 244CF7D3B46AEE6A91-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 3B0 920 929 C
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V04  
   Coding: 15235
   Shop #: WSC 25157  
   VCID: 2756E0DFC55C0572B4-513C
   WVWVD63B14E268770     VWZ7Z0D9136945

1 Fault Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit 
            64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00004
   Shop #: WSC 05311  
   VCID: 70E4CB83301202CA25-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 80 Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 05311  
   VCID: 3776309F15FC95F224-4B18

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801
   Component: 80 Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802
   Component: 80 Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811
   Component: 80 Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812
   Component: 80 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  

1 Fault Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533) 
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:51)--------------------------
 
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Uwe said:
I'm pretty sure the BHW engine was unique to the NAR Passat and was never offered with a manual trans.

-Uwe-
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct. But I know 30 of them running around out there with manuals! My son is driving one of them. It's a pity VW never offered it here. Much better car with a manual.
 
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Your cross check comment: "That cross-check requires some data interchange. Any fault here will almost certainly kill cruise control." is why I think I need to run the analog signal wire to the BHW ECU. Currently the ABS and ECU have no way of talking. The ABS is not CAN enabled but does have a wire which ran to the gasser ECU

I am hoping there is an analog signal input pin on the BHW ECU, just trying to find someone that may know if there is indeed a pin for this.
 
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I am also not super stoked about the 5.7 to 5.3 ABS change. Among other things, remember that brake light switches F and F47 get routed to (I believe) the ECU and ABS modules separately, and then cross-checked for validity, with each other and against master cylinder pressure. That cross-check requires some data interchange. Any fault here will almost certainly kill cruise control.
Click to expand...
So I checked the wiring diagrams and the ABS unit in the 4motion does NOT monitor or connect to the F or F47 switches.

The ABS installed in the stock Passat with automatic set up as well as the ECU, both connect to the F and F47 switches.
 
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vwztips said:
So I checked the wiring diagrams and the ABS unit in the 4motion does NOT monitor or connect to the F or F47 switches.

The ABS installed in the stock Passat with automatic set up as well as the ECU, both connect to the F and F47 switches.
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, I was just browsing through the same wiring diagrams to figure this out myself, and I don't know that I agree with your conclusion. Looks like maybe the 5.3 stuff gets F only, and the 5.7 gets both F and F47? I closed it out before becoming absolutely certain, but the ESP highline stuff looked to get F47 and some of the others didn't.

There's a single MVB in your 03-ABS MVB 002 module you might want to take a look at, shows the status of brake switch F. You might just make sure it's switching, and also make sure that both F and F47 are switching in unison in 01 MVB 006, both bits at the same time. I know you said you saw at least one switch for brakes, but I don't know if you saw both. It really ought to flag it with a DTC in case of problems, but let's make sure. We're dealing with a wiring topology matter that DOES appear to differ between stock and your retrofit.
 
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Yep just checked 03 MVB 02 and it does switch 0 to 1 with the brake pedal in field 1
Also have both 11 in 01 MVB 006 field 2 in positions 1 and 2 when brake is pushed.

FWIW, soft coding is 0273004284 for the 5.3 Bosch ABS. I don't recall what the login code is for this module to change the soft coding. Anyone know?

Of course if the ABS and ECU cannot cross talk, I guess it doesn't matter.

Funny, the Bentley wiring diagrams shows no F or F47 switch input that I can see. Maybe I missed something.
 
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Bueller.......Bueller.......Bueller

Anybody know where I can get the pin designations for the BHW ECU? I have all the ones noted in the Bentley wiring diagrams. Just hoping there is a pin for a analog ABS input signal.
 
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