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Thread: Regular RPM Changes when Engine Cold and Electrical Consumers On (Golf MK6 1.6TDI)

  1. #1
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    Regular RPM Changes when Engine Cold and Electrical Consumers On (Golf MK6 1.6TDI)

    Hi All,

    Perhaps someone can assist. Since I have had it my car, a Golf MK6 2012 Model 1.6TDI (engine CAYC) has suffered from a slight but regular fluctuation in the RPM between 740-820rpm (as per VCDS) which you can feel through the steering wheel. Pre-Requisites for this to occur are engine cold and Electrical Consumers On (i.e rear demister, headlights, Heater on etc). It always disappears as soon as the engine is warmed up (10 mins or so). The fluctuation is regular and not random, like every couple of seconds or so only when the above requirements are met. I am noticing it a lot more since the weather has got colder in the UK and I use more consumers at startup, therefore it's getting more irritating requiring more investigation

    The EGR Valve was changed early this year so this has been ruled out. Unfortunately I don't know whether the issue was apparent before then as that was under another owner.
    The Injector deviation have been checked on all 4 cylinders and I can't see anything wrong there either (1mg max deviation on any one).
    I have had injector issues previously (same engine, different car) and this has resulted in random and sporadic changes to the idle rpm, this is not.

    Battery Voltage shows between 12.2-12.6V at rest and alternator shows charging well at between 14.5-14.8V when on. The battery is the original though so I am surprised it's still going strong after 6 years and 80K miles.

    The car had the emissions fix performed on it last year but not sure if this would be related as I am not getting any actual driveability issues.

    There are no relevant fault codes present in VCDS, I have attached a VCDS dump from earlier this year when the problem first occurred.

    Has anyone experienced such an issue as I am running out of things to check? Thanks in advance.

    Code:
    Wednesday,09,May,2018,12:35:32:00352
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x86
    VCDS Version: 18.2.0.3
    Data version: 20180212 DS287.0
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBW31xxxx   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 127900km-79473mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 1K-VW36 (7N0)
    Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 2E 42 44 46 52 56 61 62 72 77
             
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBW31xxxx   Mileage: 127900km-79473miles
    
    01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
    04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
    2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
    62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
    72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
    77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine (J623-CAYC)       Labels:. 03L-906-023-CAY.clb
       Part No SW: 03L 997 557 T    HW: 03L 907 425 C
       Component: R4 1.6l TDI   H43 9982  
       Revision: --H43---    Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 08114014032501080000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM16TDI02103L997557T 003003
       ROD: EV_ECM16TDI.rod
       VCID: 4DB75AE91CD07E2CA3-8018
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BE    HW: 1K0 907 379 BE
       Component: ESP MK60EC1   H31 0108  
       Revision: 00H31001    
       Coding: 133B200D092300FFC81304E9901A0091310000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 76C5D505C1C65DF432-8022
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301)       Labels:| 3C8-907-336.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 426 K    HW: 7N0 907 426 K
       Component: AC Manuell    H17 0202  
       Revision: 00001012    
       Coding: 0000000003
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatic A01005
       ROD: EV_ClimaBasis_VW36.rod
       VCID: 3C51072DB76AC7A404-8068
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 937 084 D    HW: 1K0 937 084 D
       Component: BCM PQ35  B   103 0615  
       Revision: 00103 AE    
       Coding: 48180A3A8825F1C040080080340000E443510088436D8160648087200041
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2F4B20617E1C2C3CB1-807A
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 5K2 955 119 
       Component: Wischer 06041  26  0512 
       Coding: 009795
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
       Component: RLS 200411 05  54  0403 
       Coding: 0330AD
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K8 951 171 
       Component: DWA-Sensor 00  001 0104 
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1K8 951 605 B
       Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H11 9005 
    
    2 Faults Found:
    00332 - Control Circuit for Tank Flap 
                007 - Short to Ground
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100111
                        Fault Priority: 4
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 214
                        Mileage: 127875 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2012.09.24
                        Time: 14:13:36
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                            Term 15 Off
                        Voltage: 11.85 V
                            OFF
                            ON
                            Term 50 Off
                            OFF
                            OFF
    
    02395 - Parking Light Front Right (M3) 
                010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00101010
                        Fault Priority: 2
                        Fault Frequency: 6
                        Reset counter: 254
                        Mileage: 127875 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2012.09.24
                        Time: 14:17:19
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                            Term 15 On
                        Voltage: 14.65 V
                            ON
                            ON
                            Term 50 On
                            OFF
                            OFF
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:. 3C8-919-475.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 919 475 E    HW: 5K0 919 475 E
       Component: PARKHILFE 8K  H01 0012  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 12501110100802
       Coding: 108001
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 38591B3D8B52EB84E0-806C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
       Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 B    HW: 5C0 959 655 B
       Component: AirbagVW10    013 0613  
       Serial number: 003G5RA42UNY  
       Coding: 00003948
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01014
       ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
       VCID: 314F261960283ACCA7-8064
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3572MSME712E165FZZZ1
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3582MSME7F34635EZZZ8
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3512QSME7A451D4EZZZ6
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3522QSME4A441D16ZZZZ
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:| 5K0-953-569.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 507 BC    HW: 5K0 953 549 E
       Component: Lenks.Modul   008 0080  
       Revision: --------    Serial number:  90440KDJ001AV
       Coding: 1082140000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGKUDS A05001
       ROD: EV_SMLSNGKUDS_A05.rod
       VCID: 72CDE915A5AE41D41E-8026
    
       Multifunction steering wheel control module: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C8 959 537 D    HW: 3C8 959 537 D  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
       Component: E221__MFL-TK6  H06 0022 
       Serial number: 40000000000000324004
       Coding: E20000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
       Part No SW: 5K0 920 971 A    HW: 5K0 920 971 A
       Component: KOMBI         H20 0420  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 470B00
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04089
       ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW36.rod
       VCID: 2D773A697C105E2C83-8078
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 D    HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: J533  Gateway H35 0614  
       Revision:   H35       Serial number: 140411F2001094
       Coding: 350003
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 314F261968283ACCA7-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
       Component: IMMO          H20 0420  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 000000
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03008
       ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09.rod
       VCID: 6AFDF1758D7E8914A6-803E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels:. 5N0-035-342.lbl
       Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 D    HW: 5N0 035 342 D
       Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0150  
       Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7669823626    
       Coding: 010000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2879CB7D5BF27B0470-807C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 701 B    HW: 5K0 959 701 B
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2120  
       Coding: 0131764
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 314F2619A8283ACCA7-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
       Part No: 1K0 909 144 M
       Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69     3201  
       Revision: 00H20000    
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 34412F0D573A0FE4CC-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MAX3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 702 C    HW: 5K0 959 702 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2120  
       Coding: 0132020
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 33432C11523408DCD5-8066
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio (J0503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 035 195 A    HW: 3C8 035 195 A
       Component: Radio RCD510  041 0166  
       Revision: 00000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z3L0746133
       Coding: 0100040004
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2665C54551E66D7442-8072
    
    1 Fault Found:
    00821 - Antenna 2 for Radio (R93) 
                007 - Short to Ground
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100111
                        Fault Priority: 5
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 214
                        Mileage: 127875 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2012.09.24
                        Time: 14:10:37
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840)       Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 534     HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: Batt.regelung H35 0614  
       Serial number: 140411F2001094
       Coding: 030B185A
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 71CFE619A8A87ACCE7-8024
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 1K0 915 181 F    HW: 1K0 915 181 A
       Component: J367-BDM  H07 0150 
       Serial number: 00000000009370226942
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 703 D    HW: 5K0 959 703 D
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0131216
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 354712095C4016ECFB-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 704 D    HW: 5K0 959 704 D
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0131216
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 3645150541461DF4F2-8062
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels:| 7P6-035-730.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 035 730 B    HW: 5K0 035 730 B
       Component: TELEFON       H09 1020  
       Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007669764269
       Coding: 0A01000000010101
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: UHVNA A01009
       ROD: UHVNA.rod
       VCID: 2461DF4D2FDA9F645C-8070
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:02)--------------------------
    Last edited by airbus; 11-27-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    Airbus, not sure on this model but on Cummins truck fluctuation during first minutes normal as glow grid pulls almost 120 amps. Not saying this is how this system works but maybe??, would look at amp draws on the VAG during this period for a clue as issue seems when cold then not when warm.

    Another clue, is there a subtle dimming of all lights of and on during this?

    LARIMORE

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Manton View Post
    Airbus, not sure on this model but on Cummins truck fluctuation during first minutes normal as glow grid pulls almost 120 amps. Not saying this is how this system works but maybe??, would look at amp draws on the VAG during this period for a clue as issue seems when cold then not when warm.

    LARIMORE

    LARIMORE
    Hi Larry, thanks for the reply.

    It could well be a current draw that is causing this, but the voltage regulation module shows the battery voltage at about 14.5-14.8v when the car is started. I did notice though that with basic ignition on (and daylight running lights on by default), the voltage first thing in the morning is 12v according to VCDS. Also after going into module 61 (battery regulation), I see a value for 85% battery charge. Could this be an issue I wonder, who knows... I do know its the original battery so I suppose I could change it if there is a chance of it helping. Just a little reluctant because it starts fine and the stop/start works fine, so it doesn't feel like end of life

  4. #4
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbus View Post
    Also after going into module 61 (battery regulation), I see a value for 85% battery charge.
    That's not unusual, newer VAG cars with start/stop and battery management try to keep the battery charge somewhere near 70% to 80% - to allow headroom for using the alternator to provide extra load when using engine braking by putting more charge into the battery (sometimes referred to as the vehicle being a micro-Hybrid).

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetrolDave View Post
    That's not unusual, newer VAG cars with start/stop and battery management try to keep the battery charge somewhere near 70% to 80% - to allow headroom for using the alternator to provide extra load when using engine braking by putting more charge into the battery (sometimes referred to as the vehicle being a micro-Hybrid).
    Hi PetrolDave, OK good to know thanks.

    Is it possible the battery is a contributory factor in this or no chance since the alternator is pulling the electric current in from the engine after start? I guess the battery would be certainly the issue if it didn't start in the first place. The issue never occurs on a warmed up engine...

  7. #6
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbus
    The battery is the original though so I am surprised it's still going strong after 6 years and 80K miles.


    Quote Originally Posted by airbus View Post
    the voltage first thing in the morning is 12v according to VCDS.
    Quote Originally Posted by airbus View Post
    Is it possible the battery is a contributory factor in this
    I suggest you check the battery voltage first thing in the morning with a meter. 12V does seem lower than I would expect (except on really cold mornings), so I'm suspicious of the battery - especially as you say it's 6 years old, so I doubt whether it is actually "still going strong". The recent arrival of Winter in the UK might just have been too much for such an old battery to cope with.

  8. #7
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    The battery voltage at 12v is actually shown through VCDS with basic ignition circuit on (to get VCDS working) and daytime running lights on (by default). I just tried it on a multimeter at the battery direct with everything off, it's showing 12.5v. The issue has been going on since early this year unfortunately, but it's been less noticeable as I have had less electrical consumers on, nowl this cold spell has started I am noticing it more often

  9. #8
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbus View Post
    The issue has been going on since early this year unfortunately, but it's been less noticeable as I have had less electrical consumers on, nowl this cold spell has started I am noticing it more often
    That plus the battery being 6 years old strongly suggests a battery that is starting to fail due to old age.

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  11. #9
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    ^ I agree with PetrolDave here. I had the same symptoms like OP in our previous Golf Plus MK5 1.6FSI. On cold weather (which we have around 6 months per year here in Finland) the engine rpm fluctuated pretty much from ~700 - 1000rpm until the engine had warmed up.
    It got to a point that the car barely started on freezing temperatures. After battery change the fluctuation was not completely gone but was much more civilized. I would say the range was not more than 100rpm between normal and the higher mode.

    Some fluctuation is normal as electric consumers suck juice from the battery and the electronics compensate that by increasing the rpm to have more current produced from alternator.

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  13. #10
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    Thanks both of you for the responses. I will certainly consider changing the AGM Battery installed. I thought that the battery was kind of redundant once the car is started since the power is being fed in by the alternator.

    I'd also be interested to know whether anyone has had issues with the idle on their car since having the emissions fix completed. The previous owner did it to my car so it's on software version 9982 now. The only bad stories I have read are the car going into limp mode, the egr failing...other stuff like that as a consequence of actually driving the vehicle, not just idling. I dont suffer any issues whilst driving along, the previous owner may have as the got the egr changed after the software update, good for me perhaps...

    I was going to get a software rollback done at an independent to see whether that may improve it, but if the chances are slim, then not worth it (could probably introduce more issues anyway)...who knows.

    Good to know that one person has experienced a similiar symptom and found it be a battery issue more or less. It would be interesting to see if anybody with a1.6TDI has also experienced the same symptoms.

    Thanks for the replies.

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