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Thread: Brake issue

  1. #1
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    Brake issue

    Hello all, I'm new to Ross Tech, but not new to VWs. This is like my 5th one.

    My question is: WHAT'S THE PROPER WAY TO USE ROSS TECH TO BLEED THE ABS, (EXACTLY!).

    History: Last month I bought this 2003 Golf VR6 with 84K on the clock. The brakes were "weak" when I bought it. The pedal was firm, and consistent but the car didn't stop well. I thought it was cheesy pads(...seen it before).

    When I got it home, first thing I did was change the pads and bed them. It didn't have any effect. I also noted the inboard side of both front rotors were a rusted mess so I changed them too(before the bedding).
    Long story short, I've rebuilt the front calipers, installed SS Brake lines, Tyrolsport Metal bushings, new rotors, new pads and bled the system(several times). No soap.
    I have vacuum and the master seems to hold pressure('til today). It's my best guess that either the fronts are really weak(pressure wise) or one circuit is out. Both backs look "textbook". Also, the car sort-of fishtails when you get on the brakes.

    Today, thinking I had air in the ABS, I tried to use Ross Tech to bleed the ABS followed by a system bleed. In the end it's worse than ever. The pedal is mush and the car doesn't stop. It's basically undrivable now.
    I guess I did it wrong somehow. I followed the directions, but they're pretty cryptic.
    For instance:
    When it says hold the pedal, then the system kicks in and the pedal drops . . . what do I do? (I was carful NEVER to drive the pedal to the floor).
    When it says pump the pedal 10x, is that with two people opening and closing the valves? I had it set up with catch bottles and tubes into an inch of product. How fast and hard do I pump the pedal?
    I kept getting mega air from the passenger side front(like LOTS of air). Why is that? After a while, it seemed to stop, but I guess not because it's a mess now.
    That's all for now, THANKS!
    TomJV

  2. #2
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Please post an auto-scan........

    Did you perform this by yourself or with assistance?
    Were brakes bleed while ignition off or on car running?

    Have you attempted a gravity bleed?

    VCDS/factory tester is used as an assistant to pulsing the ABS pump to remove air from the pump, and to verify zones in conjunction to checking wheel lock and rotation.

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  4. #3
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    >Please post an auto-scan........
    Performed a scan after I did the VAG bleed. No faults found.

    >Did you perform this by yourself or with assistance?
    Alone.

    >Were brakes bleed while ignition off or on car running?
    VAG=ON; Motive(after VAG)=OFF

    >Have you attempted a gravity bleed?
    No.

    >VCDS/factory tester is used as an assistant to pulsing the ABS pump to remove air from the pump, and to verify zones in conjunction to checking wheel lock and rotation.
    I know this. What I don't know is; how to use it properly.

    TomJV

  5. #4
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    RTFB!

    You didn't post it here or the other forum..........
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post86590480

    www.erwin.vw.com

    http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/absbleeding.html

    This procedure details how to bleed the ABS pump when replacing brake fluid. This procedure is NOT necessary unless your ABS pump has gone completely dry. For normal brake work including fluid replacement, hose replacement, pad replacement, etc. this procedure is NOT necessary. Also, this procedure does not take the place of good ol' fashioned brake bleeding with one person operating the pedal while the other person opens the bleeder valves one by one and collects the discharged fluid.

    Here is how...............to post that scan.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCBt6d42-Fc

    Based on your posts/answers you are not qualified to be doing your repair and it is advised you seek a professional to preform the procedures..........Correctly!

    I think you should consider the GRAVITY of the situation.

    Helpful inks ........

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulics

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_brake
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 11-02-2014 at 01:38 PM.

  6. #5
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    If this is the procedure I'm thinking it is, it really requires the car to be up on a lift, with one person in the car using VCDS and actuating the brake pedal while a second person is under the car opening and closing the bleed screws, etc.

    -Uwe-

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    If this is the procedure I'm thinking it is, it really requires the car to be up on a lift, with one person in the car using VCDS and actuating the brake pedal while a second person is under the car opening and closing the bleed screws, etc.

    -Uwe-
    Hey Uwe,
    I have the car on stands(all 4 wheels off). THAT'S what I'm trying to find out. Can this be done solo?

    I understand the other comment. There's a "right way" to do things. I'll post my scan today.
    TomJV

  8. #7
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    VCDS Version: Release 12.12.3
    Data version: 20140822

    Sunday,02,November,2014,10:57:36:08126

    Code:
    Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
              76
     
    VIN: 9BWDH61J134074051   Mileage: 135540km/84220miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-BDF.lbl
       Part No: 022 906 032 CS
       Component: United 24V      G   04wc  
       Coding: 00032
       Shop #: WSC 00001  
       VCID: 5EBD9140DA282BEEC91-5178
       9BWDH61J134074051     VWZ7Z0C7128452
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 0000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
       Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
       Coding: 0019970
       Shop #: WSC 00001 785 00200
       VCID: 346913E85424D1BE4F5-5178
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
       Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003  
       Coding: 12344
       Shop #: WSC 00001  
       VCID: 2753F4A4C5F2AA26FA7-513C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
       Part No: 1J0 920 926 F
       Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07  
       Coding: 07234
       Shop #: WSC 02982  
       VCID: 2D5F068CE70E807600B-513C
       9BWDH61J134074051     VWZ7Z0C7128452
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
       Part No: 6N0 909 901 
       Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
       Coding: 00006
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
       VCID: F0E15FF8B0BC2D9EEBD-515A
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
       Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
       Coding: 00064
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
       VCID: 377324E415523AA66A7-4B18
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
       Component: 8B Tőrsteuer.FS KLO 0009  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
       Component: 8B Tőrsteuer.BF KLO 0009  
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio        Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
       Part No: 3B7 035 180 E
       Component:    Radio ZSW        0010  
       Coding: 00031
       Shop #: WSC 09016  
       VCID: 2245E5B0AED04F0EAD9-513C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Uwe; 11-02-2014 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Fixed CODE tags

  9. #8
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomjv View Post
    Can this be done solo?
    I doubt it. It's also beyond the scope of this forum to explain such primarily mechanical/hydraulic procedures in detail. That's what a repair manual is for.

    -Uwe-

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  11. #9
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    Oh, sorry. I'll cease.
    TomJV

  12. #10
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Search you tube..........

    How to gravity bleed brakes!




    Hey Uwe,
    I have the car on stands(all 4 wheels off). THAT'S what I'm trying to find out. Can this be done solo?
    YUP!





    Your car is modified with deleted monitors and DTC tables.........cough! AKA signed death warrant.


    Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDF.lbl
    Part No: 022 906 032 CS
    Component: United 24V G 04wc
    Coding: 00032
    Shop #: WSC 00001
    VCID: 5EBD9140DA282BEEC91-5178
    9BWDH61J134074051 VWZ7Z0C7128452

    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 0000

    On airplanes we take mighty vac and pump fluid from caliper to master reservoir.

    Vacula makes great suck down air bleeders which are passive at the bleeder with no second person.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/350717213038?lpid=82




    NOTE:

    Based on training I have received from VW-Audi-Bosch directly on these systems.
    The OBD pump air/release prime 0x03-03 [ output diagnostic test mode ] is used after conventional bleeding is performed.

    It is not a replacement for it!

    It is to be used as a final check and balance of the system to release each wheel......... one at a time!
    While second tech spins the wheel to check lock and release of the wheel in conjunction being called out with the tech holding brake pedal and commencing the lock or release of the OBD test plan.

    Additionally special attention is to be paid to the noise of the noids........... releasing air as an indication in each wheel and which wheel may need additional bleeding based on that audible noise and pedal travel for that zone referenced.

    After this is done and hydraulic PSI established....... it is also recommended to take car out for road test to seat and heat up system.

    Then come back and check again with OBD and for possible latent air.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 11-02-2014 at 01:47 PM.

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