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Thread: VW 1.8t 20v powered kit car

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    VW 1.8t 20v powered kit car

    I do not know exactly which forum to post this in, but seems "retrofits" fits...

    I have a friend requesting me to build him a track/kit car. So we are brainstorming about

    1) using a 1.8t 20V engine (ME7.5 DBW 1.8t ecu)with a DSG transmission.
    2) plan on using the steering column for shift paddles... DSG shifter for P, R N D Sport...
    3) to install the FWD engine, trans, axles, spindles/hubs into the rear of the car, making it RWD.
    4) front spindles will also be FWD parts... any problem having 4 front wheel speed sensors
    4a) Other thought is to use rear trailing arms/suspension parts from AWD VW/Audi, so I could still use mechanical/cable parking brake.

    With getting the ME7.5 ecu and the DSG to work together, do we also need the gateway? We plan on using either a Beetle OR Golf instrument cluster, and installing the 1.8t 20V era mechanical/manual A/C... driver is needing a/c. in Miami.

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    I think you might be in uncharted territory getting a DSG to work with an old-school 1.8T ECU. For a DSG to work properly, the ECU has to be able to take "orders" from it.

    There were DSGs in cars that didn't have a proper Gateway, but I think they were all TDIs (New Beetle).

    Beyond that, I have no other thoughts at the moment.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    I think you might be in uncharted territory getting a DSG to work with an old-school 1.8T ECU. For a DSG to work properly, the ECU has to be able to take "orders" from it.

    There were DSGs in cars that didn't have a proper Gateway, but I think they were all TDIs (New Beetle).

    Beyond that, I have no other thoughts at the moment.

    -Uwe-


    In 2002, Volkswagen produced the Golf R32 in Europe as a 2003 model year. It was the world's first production car with a dual-clutch gearbox (DSG) available for the German market....
    I'm sure these were ME 7.5ish ecu's

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veedabowlu View Post
    In 2002, Volkswagen produced the Golf R32 in Europe as a 2003 model year. It was the world's first production car with a dual-clutch gearbox (DSG) — available for the German market....
    I'm sure these were ME 7.5ish ecu's
    IIRC, they were ME 7.1.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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    The 3.2 is me7.1 yes. There was no 1.8t with dsg. If it was me, I would be looking at using a newer ecu that worked with the dsg, and rewirinf and remapping it to work with the 1.8t

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinopower View Post
    The 3.2 is me7.1 yes. There was no 1.8t with dsg. If it was me, I would be looking at using a newer ecu that worked with the dsg, and rewirinf and remapping it to work with the 1.8t
    Well the only DSG cars i know of other than this older German Golf R come with direct injection, which we are trying to stay away from....

    Suggestions for getting this 1.8t 20V engine to work with a dsg transmission would be greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    IIRC, they were ME 7.1.

    -Uwe-
    I only have access to USDM repair/wiring diagrams.... Uwe, care to elaborate a little more.... will ME7.1 control 1.8t 20v engine for this application, preferably DBW ecu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by veedabowlu View Post
    I only have access to USDM repair/wiring diagrams.... Uwe, care to elaborate a little more.... will ME7.1 control 1.8t 20v engine for this application, preferably DBW ecu.
    IIRC (and I may well be wrong) ME 7.1 and 7.5 were extremely similar, 7.1 for naturally aspirated engines and ME 7.5 for forced induction. Lots of cars/platforms came with interchangeable ME 7.1 or 7.5, for example, the Passat used ME 7.1 for 2.8L 30V V6 configurations and ME 7.5 for the 1.8T 20V V6. And on that platform, they used the same 01V transmission with basically the same TCMs, just software changes. So that R32 DSG might get you close, but it'd be a rare and possibly hard-to-find hardware configuration, and you'd still have some custom programming to do.

    Can I ask why you're in love with the 20V 1.8T for this project? If you want a DSG, that's going to be ever so much easier with an EA888 2.0T.
    Silence gives consent.

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    1.8t 20V tuning/aftermarket support is HUGE... the 2.0T...pain in the A$$, cleaning carbon from intake valves, has my friend turned off regarding ANY direct
    injection engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by veedabowlu View Post
    1.8t 20V tuning/aftermarket support is HUGE...
    Very true, but same goes for the 2.0T.

    Quote Originally Posted by veedabowlu View Post
    the 2.0T...pain in the A$$, cleaning carbon from intake valves, has my friend turned off regarding ANY direct injection engines.
    You stated that you're looking to design and construct a rear-engined modified 1.8T track car (on an unspecified chassis) with ME 7.5 and working ABS/ESP and air conditioning, and you want to graft a DSG onto this. You have a lot of other design challenges to think about, before you get to "what happens if I grandma-drive this thing for six or eight years without opening the intake manifold ever again".

    If you get to that point in your design process, the simple answer is "catch can". If you really want to go all-out, and you're willing to import odd one-off European market parts (ala that R32 DSG), import the manifold and injector set from a European EA888 with dual (direct and port) injection. Problem solved.

    I have a special place in my heart for the 5V family of engines. I drove a 2.8 30V for many years, had it apart for a top end rebuild. My oldest kid is driving a 1.8T 20V, and my two younger kids will probably get something 1.8T 20V powered when the time comes (certainly the price will be right, by that point in time). I'm a fan. But, grafting a DSG to this project would be an extremely serious undertaking. Making it fit and bolt together would only be the beginning.
    Silence gives consent.

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