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Thread: How to test Radiator Fan, Control Modle, or relay with VCDS Lite audi a4 / b6

  1. #1
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    How to test Radiator Fan, Control Modle, or relay with VCDS Lite audi a4 / b6

    Any VCDS experts out there that can help me diagnose my rad fans/FCM?

    2003 audi a4/b6 1.8t fwd cvt

    The fans are not coming on with the ac, or ever. I tested the fans and they do work when jumped with 12v and they will come on intermittently if i put the car in the on position , turn AC on LO setting, with the recirculation on. maybe once out of every 10 times.

    here are the codes its pulled up so far, only one that might be related is the high pressure sensor being too high but it is kicking the clutch on the AC and i think thats more of an air-conditioning problem than a fan problem

    Code:
    VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
    Friday, 17 October 2014, 09:35:41:34439
    
    
    Chassis Type: 8E - Audi A4 B6
    Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,0F,11,15,16,17,18,36,37,45,46,55,56 ,57,65,67,69,75,76,77
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
    Controller: 8E0 909 518 AF
    Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
    Coding: 0016581
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 749BD95457A3
    1 Fault Found:
    17887 - Brake Boost Vacuum System: Mechanical Failure
    P1479 - 008 - Implausible Signal
    Readiness: 0010 1001
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01J-927-156.LBL
    Controller: 01J 927 156 FF
    Component: V30 01J 1.8l5VT USA 3011
    Coding: 01001
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 759DE4505CD9
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 614 517 G
    Component: ABS/ESP front 2328
    Coding: 04279
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 2C2B0134CF13
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 820 043 K
    Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1016
    Coding: 00000
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 2925F820C0E1
    2 Faults Found:
    00735 - Potentiometer in Positioning Motor for Air recirculation Flap (G143)
    30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
    00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65)
    06-00 - Signal too High
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 907 279 E
    Component: int. Lastmodul USA 0305
    Coding: 00013
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 341B19541723
    1 Fault Found:
    01502 - Bulb for Rear Fog; Left (L46)
    57-00 - Electric Circuit Failure
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 959 655 C
    Component: Airbag 8.4EP 2000
    Coding: 0010607
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 37012E580655
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 953 549 L
    Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0308
    Coding: 00041
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 3C0B31743F73
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 920 950 L
    Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D35
    Coding: 02200
    Shop #: WSC 05141
    VCID: 32171F4CED37
    WAUJC68E13A176257 AUZ6Z0B0267086
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 951 177 
    Component: Innenraumueberw. 0604
    Coding: 00001
    Shop #: WSC 00000
    VCID: EBA942288A9D
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.LBL
    Controller: 8E0 959 433 BB
    Component: Komfortgerát T7B 1311
    Coding: 11868
    Shop #: WSC 05141
    VCID: 7297DF4C2DB7
    15 Faults Found:
    01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
    29-00 - Short to Ground
    01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
    35-00 - -
    00962 - Alarm via. Tilt Sensor
    35-00 - -
    01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
    35-00 - -
    01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
    35-00 - -
    01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
    35-00 - -
    01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
    35-00 - -
    01572 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Passenger Side
    35-00 - -
    01574 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Right Rear
    35-00 - -
    01573 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Left Rear
    35-00 - -
    01802 - Door Warning Lamp; Pass Side (W36)
    57-10 - Electric Circuit Failure - Intermittent
    01035 - Electric Window Thermal Protection Active; Passenger
    35-10 - - - Intermittent
    01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
    49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
    01561 - Left Rear Door
    59-10 - Can't Unlock - Intermittent
    Last edited by Uwe; 10-17-2014 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Wrapped CODE tags around Auto-Scan

  2. #2
    Ross-Tech Employee DrPeter's Avatar
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    Hello,

    The 2003 A4 uses a J293 - Coolant FC (Fan Control) Control Module to control the electric cooling fan, it is located above the electric fan. This controller does not have diagnostic capabilities and does not communicate with VCDS.

    If you look at a wiring diagram, you will notice the ECM-(J220) does have a connection to the J293 and this is the signal wire the ECM uses to command the fan 'on', using a PWM (pulsed-width-modulated signal).

    You should be able to conduct an Output Test with the ECM (key-on, engine-off). The fan should 'ramp-up' from 0 to 100% and back to 0% speed.

    If the fan does not operate check the Measuring Value Block(MVB) Group 135, field 2 will show you in (%) the current fan output speed from the ECM.
    MVB-137 will show you some AC system status/request info.

    If the above looks okay, check the fuses:
    S4(5amp) = Located on the left side of dash
    S42(40/60amp) = Located above relay panel in dash

    If they are okay, you will need to check the signal from the ECM to the J293, use of an oscilloscope is the preferred way. You maybe able to see some voltage on a DVOM, set to AC voltage, but that is only RMS voltage.

    If there is no ECM signal, check the wiring to J293 from the ECM, should be the red/white wire.


    And if you have voltage in, signal in and the fan powers-up, it sounds like the J293 has failed.

    Hope that helps,

    drpeter

  3. #3
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Your engine ecu needs a firmware update..........

    Are you also sure your viscous isn't damaged...........if supported because that is a mechanical device?

    That would also explain high PSI in the ac from inadequate cooling.

    If the outside ambient temp sensor is reporting an incorrect low temp..........such as -40C this will also force the AC and fans to INOP or sporadic.
    In many cases there will be no error for it.

    Be sure to log it.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 10-18-2014 at 08:51 AM.

  4. #4
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    Very detailed thank you! I will try this later on the afternoon and update the post

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Your engine ecu needs a firmware update..........

    Are you also sure your viscous isn't damaged...........if supported because that is a mechanical device?

    That would also explain high PSI in the ac from inadequate cooling.

    If the outside ambient temp sensor is reporting an incorrect low temp..........such as -40C this will also force the AC and fans to INOP or sporadic.
    In many cases there will be no error for it.

    Be sure to log it.
    How can i update the firmware of the ECU or any other modules in the car with the VCDS-Lite?

  6. #6
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bertog84 View Post
    How can i update the firmware of the ECU or any other modules in the car with the VCDS-Lite?
    You cannot. VCDS does not do control module firmware updates.

    -Uwe-

  7. #7
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    We can help with the firmware update if interested.

    Please see the contact form
    http://www.europeanpartsemporium.com/?page_id=31

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPeter View Post
    Hello,

    The 2003 A4 uses a J293 - Coolant FC (Fan Control) Control Module to control the electric cooling fan, it is located above the electric fan. This controller does not have diagnostic capabilities and does not communicate with VCDS.

    If you look at a wiring diagram, you will notice the ECM-(J220) does have a connection to the J293 and this is the signal wire the ECM uses to command the fan 'on', using a PWM (pulsed-width-modulated signal).

    You should be able to conduct an Output Test with the ECM (key-on, engine-off). The fan should 'ramp-up' from 0 to 100% and back to 0% speed.

    If the fan does not operate check the Measuring Value Block(MVB) Group 135, field 2 will show you in (%) the current fan output speed from the ECM.
    MVB-137 will show you some AC system status/request info.

    If the above looks okay, check the fuses:
    S4(5amp) = Located on the left side of dash
    S42(40/60amp) = Located above relay panel in dash

    If they are okay, you will need to check the signal from the ECM to the J293, use of an oscilloscope is the preferred way. You maybe able to see some voltage on a DVOM, set to AC voltage, but that is only RMS voltage.

    If there is no ECM signal, check the wiring to J293 from the ECM, should be the red/white wire.


    And if you have voltage in, signal in and the fan powers-up, it sounds like the J293 has failed.

    Hope that helps,

    drpeter
    thank you very much, so i tested the output test and the fan did not start to ramp up, i have seen it to that in the past intermittently as stated on my original post, when the key is on and the ac is set to the highest settings

    i checked the MVB
    group 135, engine was cold 30C, and i had a load of 83%
    group 137 with AC set on HI Load went all the way to 98% with an absolute pressure of 27.6bar and i could see in field 2 the compressor switching on then off

    the fan did not come on at all, i logged the groups for a few minutes and again the engine was cold
    How do the loads work and at what percentage are they suppose to trigger the fans on?

    when referring to the fuses
    s4, does that mean slot 4? it was a 5amp but labeled as a brake pump fuse on the sticker
    and s42 I'm not not sure where you are referring to please advise

    Thank you for your help and the vcds tool is pretty cool to use, even though in pulling out my hair trying to diagnose this darn thing it is kinda fun to use.

  9. #9
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    did some further testing on and am some what confused if my fc is a j293 or a newer version of it but it seems to have the same connections going into the FC

    im not sure i have a J293 FC, mine is audi part number 8e0 959 501 ag
    when i google the two they seem different, the 8e0 959 501 ag has a 4 wire whip with a harness then another group of wires that are hard wired to the fan, they j293 has two harnesses with clips

    from doing some more research, the 4 wire harness coming from the ECM to the FC has 2 thick gauge wires and two thin wires
    thick
    brown - ground
    Red/Blue- constant 12v from fuse S42

    thin
    red/white- acc 12v from fuse S4
    red/gray - Signal

    With VCDS running both groups I have
    135 30 celcius/11% load
    137 ac low/comp off/ 6.8 bar/ 0% load

    Im getting 12v power at both the constat and the acc
    and the signal wire is alternates from 1.0 to 0.3 on a volt meter on AC setting

    Also noticing that the ACC stays on after the key is removed as well as the signal wire readings for almost exactly 15 minutes, i tested this twice
    when power to the ACC is finally gone, the signal wire also does not put out any readings, and I also lost the communication from the VCDS to the ecm ( you can hear a relay click)

    I think its safe to say i need to replace the FC,

    anyone have good or bad success with oem's vs aftermarket?

  10. #10
    Ross-Tech Employee DrPeter's Avatar
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    anyone have good or bad success with oem's vs aftermarket?

    - I have an Audi A3, I replaced the small fan with an aftermarket one, it worked for about 1 month, I had it warrantied and also replaced the large fan with controller at the same time I installed the second (warrantied) small fan and to date they are both fine, been two months now.

    - It is hit or miss with aftermarket parts, sometimes that is even true with the OEM parts from the dealerships. Many times you will find the same exact part being sold by the vendor for Audi/VW, these parts usually will not have the Audi/VW logos on them, but most of the time they are the same part, just sold to aftermarket parts suppliers and not the dealership's parts departments.

    - If you do not mind doing the job twice (maybe) and want to save a little bit of money, then a good brand name aftermarket part can work just fine, make sure it has at least a 1 year warranty.

    Important note: I would stay away from the 'super, super' cheep copies/clone parts, if you do not, you might just get a 'shoddy fan controller casing full of used pinball machine parts.'

    Hope this helps,

    drpeter

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