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Thread: CFFB camshaft and crankshaft sync

  1. #11
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    Uwe, thank you for the reply! I find this kind of measurement useful for monitoring the tooth-belt (aka timing belt) condition. With time belt gets stetched out and I could see that with my 1.9 PD TDI. I am hoping to find a way to inspect that on modern VAG CR TDI's as well.

    Changing the timing tooth belt on PD TDI's, it was very easy to install it 1-2 degrees off, and many people complained about rough idle and fuel economy. It is not just the injection timing, but also the physical intake and exhaust valves' timing, which cannot be compensated by the ECU, except for the actual PD injection timing.

    Btw, what is ENG106252 Synchronous angle for?
    Last edited by Bambur; 07-11-2018 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #12
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambur View Post
    Btw, what is ENG106252 Synchronous angle for?
    Good question. Unfortunately, VW does not bother to tell us these things.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  4. #13
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    OK, no problem! I keep searching and will post here if I find it

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  6. #14
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    PD injectors are also electronically controlled.
    Valve timing in these TDIs (be it either PD or CR) is VERY important (as well as CR pump timing, opposed to what most people think/say).
    CR belt is very long (160 teeth) as opposed to PD belt (120 teeth).
    Besides in the TB path there are much more rollers and idlers (1 tensioner + 3 idlers on CR vs 1 tensioner + 1 idler on PD). Over time/miles they get worn (actually by 140k km all idlers except the large one have play and bearing noise) so free play is introduced. This impactis timing as well.
    The belt is prone to stretching, more or less, too. It's 25 mm wide, as opposed to PD which is 30 mm.
    And finally CRs have almost twice as long TB replacement intervals as PD had (120k km for early PDs and 210k km for some CRs).
    Removing TB cover to inspect the TB system is not that straight forward on CR as it's on PD - much more components will need to be removed.

    So monitoring the cam/crank sync angle makes sense.

    Answering OP's original question:
    try to find a measuring block with something as "start of synchronization" in it's name. I believe the engine must be running for that. However, if I remember correctly, the reading is a bit different than what you were used to see in PD engines (degrees between crank and cam).

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  8. #15
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    Hello All. Ive got the same engine, but I cannot find ENG106252 Synchronous angle in advanced measuring blocks? I seen on other various posts, engine codes like CAGA for e.g. allow this channel to be viewed, is their an alternative IDE I can view? Oh how I wish I was back on CAN, alas, efficiency allows it not.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mu81n View Post
    Hello All. I’ve got the same engine, but I cannot find ENG106252 Synchronous angle in advanced measuring blocks? I seen on other various posts, engine codes like CAGA for e.g. allow this channel to be viewed, is their an alternative IDE I can view? Oh how I wish I was back on CAN, alas, efficiency allows it not.
    Please post an Auto-Scan so we can see exactly what ECU you have and what ASAM data it uses.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Please post an Auto-Scan so we can see exactly what ECU you have and what ASAM data it uses.

    -Uwe-
    Apologies for the late reply. Please see below:

    Code:
    Wednesday,06,March,2019,18:03:08:60391
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)
    Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZAW419147   License Plate: SB10VEK
    Mileage: 217150km-134930mi   Repair Order: 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chassis Type: 1K-VW36 (1K0)
    
    Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 2E 42 44 46 52 56 62 72
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZAW419147   Mileage: 217150km-134930miles
    
    01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
    04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
    15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
    2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
    72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 01: Engine (J623-CFFB)       Labels:. 03L-906-018-CFF.clb
    
       Part No SW: 03L 906 018     HW: 03L 907 309 R
       Component: R4 2.0l TDI   H21 9978  
       Revision: 42H21---    Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 00190012042500080000
       Shop #: WSC 52856 002 1048576
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018 003014
       ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018D.rod
       VCID: 67D82FEE9E8633727C-8032
    
    No fault code found.
    
    Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
    
       Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AH    HW: 1K0 907 379 AH
       Component: ESP MK60EC1   H30 0107  
       Revision: 00H30001    
       Coding: 163B400D09230003680C02E890200082340000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 78FA7C92CB38AC8AE5-802C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301)       Labels:| 3C8-907-336.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 907 336 AB    HW: 3C8 907 336 AB
       Component: Climatic      H14 0305  
       Revision: 00009001    
       Coding: 0000000002
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatic A01005
       ROD: EV_ClimaBasis_VW36.rod
       VCID: 6DD45DC6BC7A192206-8038
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
    
       Part No SW: 1K0 937 086 C    HW: 1K0 937 086 C
       Component: BCM PQ35  M   103 0575  
       Revision: 00103 AG    
    
       Coding: 48180A3A9025F1C044080080000081E443010088524D8160648000200000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 306A84B263C8B4CA6D-8064
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 F  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
       Component: Wischer 27041  21  0512 
       Coding: 009795
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K8 951 171 
       Component: DWA-Sensor 00  001 0104 
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K8 951 605 A
       Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H11 9004 
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
    
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 655 D    HW: 5K0 959 655 D
       Component: AirbagVW10    037 0606  
       Serial number: 003FKRA79E0J  
       Coding: 00003133
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01011
       ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
       VCID: 3B70A39EB28E4792C8-806E
       Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3572MSME04670252ZZZJ
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3582MSME0C037452ZZZR
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3512QSME06125D17ZZZQ
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3522QSME22145D16ZZZQ
    
    No fault code found.
    
    
    Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY9.lbl
       Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 CF    HW: 1K0 953 549 CF
       Component: J0527           056 0111  
       Coding: 0000532
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 78FA7C920B38AC8AE5-802C
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3C8 959 537 D  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
       Component: E221__MFL-TK6   H06 0022  
       Coding: 00000226
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
       Part No SW: 5K0 920 970 N    HW: 5K0 920 970 N
       Component: KOMBI         H03 0305  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 470B00
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04052
       ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
       VCID: 397CB996B8B27582DA-806C
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V4.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 AD    HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: J533  Gateway   H07 0112  
       Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 020510F1011493
       Coding: E9807F06000212000003
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 69DC29D6409205026A-803C
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
       Component: IMMO          H03 0305  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 000000
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03005
       ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09.rod
       VCID: 6ADE56DA8D940E1A63-803E
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels:. 5N0-035-342.lbl
       Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 B    HW: 5N0 035 342 B
       Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0090  
       Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7667994532    
       Coding: 010000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 264662EA510CEA7A87-8072
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 701 B    HW: 5K0 959 701 B
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2114  
       Coding: 0000692
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 316C81B6A8C2BDC262-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
       Part No: 1K0 909 144 J
       Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 70     3001  
       Revision: 00H17000    
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 316C81B6A8C2BDC262-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
    
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 702 B    HW: 5K0 959 702 B
    
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2114  
    
       Coding: 0000692
    
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
    
       VCID: 326E8EBAADC486DA1B-8066
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
    
       Part No SW: 1K0 035 186 AA    HW: 1K0 035 186 AA
       Component: RCD310 EU     H11 5032  
       Revision: -----01S    Serial number: VWZ4Z2K1207605
       Coding: 0100040004
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 65C425E66C8A21624E-8030
    
    4 Faults Found:
    
    00856 - Radio Antenna 
    
                007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
    
                 Freeze Frame:
    
                        Fault Status: 00100111
                        Fault Priority: 5
                        Fault Frequency: 254
                        Reset counter: 30
                        Mileage: 202480 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2013.03.03
                        Time: 07:52:28
    
    00821 - Antenna 2 for Radio (R93) 
    
                011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
    
                 Freeze Frame:
    
                        Fault Status: 00101011
                        Fault Priority: 5
                        Fault Frequency: 13
                        Reset counter: 13
                        Mileage: 215435 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2013.07.09
                        Time: 14:05:47
    
    00856 - Radio Antenna 
    
                011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
    
                 Freeze Frame:
    
                        Fault Status: 00101011
                        Fault Priority: 5
                        Fault Frequency: 14
                        Reset counter: 13
                        Time Indication: 0
    
    00821 - Antenna 2 for Radio (R93) 
    
                007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
    
                 Freeze Frame:
    
                        Fault Status: 00100111
                        Fault Priority: 5
                        Fault Frequency: 4
                        Reset counter: 10
                        Mileage: 215996 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2013.07.15
                        Time: 14:25:38
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 703 C    HW: 5K0 959 703 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0000144
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 346288A257D088EA09-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
    
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 704 C    HW: 5K0 959 704 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0000144
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 3564B5A65CAA91E23E-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:16)--------------------------
    
    Wednesday,06,March,2019,18:24:06:60391
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)
    Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    Last edited by Uwe; 03-10-2019 at 08:02 PM. Reason: CODE Tags

  11. #18
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    I wonder if the below is of any use for monitoring, especially the camshaft position, start less end = sum of angle? Or along those line:

    IDE00021 Engine speed 777 /min
    IDE00351 Main injection: start of activation -4.00
    IDE00365 Injection amount deviation cylinder 1 -0.36 mg/stroke
    IDE00366 Injection amount deviation cylinder 2 0.23 mg/stroke
    IDE00367 Injection amount deviation cylinder 3 0.50 mg/stroke
    IDE00368 Injection amount deviation cylinder 4 -0.37 mg/stroke
    IDE00394 Camshaft position: start of phase window 122.78
    IDE00395 Camshaft position: end of phase window 250.84

  12. #19
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    I don't see it in the data for that ECU either, sorry.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    I don't see it in the data for that ECU either, sorry.

    -Uwe-
    Thank you for the swift response. Tis seems I am doomed. I don’t see why VAG can’t do this across the board, where timing/crank-cam correlation can be seen via VCDS. Unfortunately, the garage that did the initial work failed epically (wrong crank locking pin!) Although rectified, I suspect my fuel pump & cam isn’t as per spec (good enough to run & not flag any faults-is that even possible?), to elaborate, as one of the posters mentioned on this site (https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...-Cambelt/page2), when the pin is locked for the fuel pump, this is the optimum level for the pump to operate. Which I assume will also lead to better fuel efficiency.
    Last edited by Mu81n; 03-11-2019 at 07:25 PM.

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