Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: WARNING about G17 Ambient Temperature Sensor, VW Golf MK7

  1. #1
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like

    WARNING about G17 Ambient Temperature Sensor, VW Golf MK7

    A few days ago I drove my car (2015yr VW Golf MK7 Estate) out of the garage & noticed that the outside temperature reading was high (+8C) when I know it was less than +4C. During the drive (1hr) the reading got steadily higher & when I got to my destination it was showing +20C as the outside temperature, when there was snow on the ground!!

    So obviously something wrong with the sensor, but did not have time to look at it properly until I got back home later that day. So removed the grille (two TX star bolts) & unplugged & removed the sensor (G17) along with the sensor bracket, as the bracket comes off easier to allow you to remove the sensor as getting the sensor off the bracket is quite tricky, & best done outside the car.

    So a stone had hit the end/tip of the sensor splitting the outer plastic & revealing the inner white thermal paste & the bead itself. OK so order new sensor from dealers (couple of days to arrive as not a "line" stock item).

    Here's the interesting part:-

    Decided to remove the sensor & plastic bag the connector, as I thought its better to have no data than incorrect data being used. Now I knew it would throw fault codes for the 09 Central Electronics & the TPMS (03 ABS) modules...

    Start car, warning message on dash re TPMS system error, ok that's fine...

    Loud beep & parking sensors button blinking orange at me, ok that's strange...

    Notice that the engine fans are at max speed due to noise, ..ok that's very strange...

    Reverse car down driveway & fans are still at max speed & I know that the outside temp is +2C & the car is cold. So drive back into garage & fans still at max speed, lift bonnet,....yep both fans max speed. Switch of ignition, I ain't driving car like this!...

    Refit the G17 Ambient temperature sensor, & everything behaves all ok, no flashing lights, no error messages & no engine fans at max speed.

    So when the new sensor arrives I fit it & do an auto scan &........look at the all the fault codes!!! Now I had run a scan only a few weeks ago, so I know car was fine & ALL those faults have the same time stamps, so same creation date.

    What gets me is how many modules rely on information via the data bus from that sensor!!! Some you expect, others are like WTF??

    Anyway moral of the story, if your G17 Ambient (outside) Temperature Sensor is faulty or playing up, DO NOT unplug it, just order & fit a new one ASAP!!!


    Code:
    Wednesday,29,November,2017,15:09:22:64565
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4401.4
    Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: WVWZZZAUZFP55XXXX   License Plate: 
    
    
    Chassis Type: AU-VW37 (5Q0)
    Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 13 15 16 17 19 42 44 47 52 55 5F
    
    VIN: WVWZZZAUZFP55XXXX   Mileage: 19841km-12328miles
    
    01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    15-Airbags -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
    5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine (J623-CHPA)       Labels:. 04E-907-309-V1.clb
       Part No SW: 04E 906 016 F    HW: 04E 907 309 A
       Component: 1,4l R4 TSI   H10 7861  
       Revision: WAH10---    
       Coding: 01190072234405082000
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00070
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM14TFS01104E906016F 002011
       ROD: EV_ECM14TFS01104E906016F.rod
       VCID: 2514F89EC56EC57F08C-8070
    
    1 Fault Found:
    7786 - Sensor for Ambient Air Temperature (G17) 
              P0070 00 [032] - Malfunction
              Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 2
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:57
    
                        Engine speed: 0.00 /min
                        Normed load value: 0.0 %
                        Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                        Coolant temperature: 21 C
                        Intake air temperature: 16 C
                        Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
                        Voltage terminal 30: 12.298 V
                        Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                        Outside air temperature: 215 C
                        Absolute intake pressure: 101 kPa abs
                        Engine torque: 0.0 Nm
                        Fuel level: 25.00 l
                        Oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1: specified value: 15.9998
                        Engine operating condition: Idling
                        Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5
    
    Readiness: 0000 0001
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 5Q0-907-379-IPB-V1.clb
       Part No SW: 5Q0 907 379 L    HW: 5Q0 907 379 G
       Component: ESC           H31 0471  
       Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 62644000001579
       Coding: 04FA8AA12425296E0380060941C82920512494C0608294F3F4205078C009
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00067
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1UDSContiMK100IPB 033001
       ROD: EV_Brake1UDSContiMK100IPB_033_VW37.rod
       VCID: 45D4581E252E257F28C-8010
    
    1 Fault Found:
    16390 - Display for Tire Pressure Monitoring 
              C1146 02 [008] - Signal Failure
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:45:07
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 5G0-907-044.clb
       Part No SW: 5G0 907 044 AN    HW: 5G0 907 044 AN
       Component: Climatronic   H03 0907  
       Revision: 00001K08    
       Coding: 02120004200400011005004200101000
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00067
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ACClimaBHBVW37X 003018
       ROD: EV_ACClimaBHBVW37X_003_VW37.rod
       VCID: 73B0D6C63B3AEBCF568-8026
    
       Fresh Air Blower Front: 
    
       Refrigerant Pressure And Temperature Sender: 
    
       Air quality sensor: 
    
    1 Fault Found:
    459527 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:58
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:| 5Q0-937-08X-HV1.clb
       Part No SW: 5Q0 937 086 AA    HW: 5Q0 937 086 AA
       Component: BCM PQ37BOSCH 028 0106  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 86582509140616
       Coding: 03000A66C24122FB0BA44080B11C07281000000000000000000000000000
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00080
       ASAM Dataset: EV_BodyContrModul1UDSBosc 013004
       ROD: EV_BCMBOSCH_013.rod
       VCID: 79ACE4EE1956919F1C4-802C
    
       Control Unit For Wiper Motor: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5G2 955 119 A    HW: 5G2 955 119 A  Labels: 5QX-955-119-V1.CLB
       Component: WWS    140828  042 0551 
       Serial number:         140909221237
       Coding: 0E4DDD
    
       Rain Light Recognition Sensor: 
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5Q0 955 547 A    HW: 5Q0 955 547 A  Labels: 5Q0-955-547.CLB
       Component: RLHS  037 0059 
       Serial number: S4Y14M09D19H22M35S19
       Coding: 06A8EE
    
       Sensor For Anti Theft Alarm System: 
       Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5Q0 951 172     HW: 5Q0 951 172 
       Component: Sensor, DWA  005 0315 
       Serial number: 000000000ZY1421702PK
    
       Alarm horn: 
       Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5Q0 951 605     HW: 5Q0 951 605 
       Component: Sirene, DWA  004 0311 
       Serial number: 00000000000060620911
    
       Relative Air Humidity Interior Sender: 
    
    1 Fault Found:
    137217 - Outside temperature sensor 
              B103F 1B [136] - Resistance Too High
              MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 2
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:28
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J791)       Labels:| 5Q0-919-294.clb
       Part No SW: 5Q0 919 294 E    HW: 5Q0 919 294 A
       Component: PARKHILFE 8K  H03 0048  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 39311424603534
       Coding: 0071151001
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00067
       ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18AU3700000 002024
       ROD: EV_EPHVA18AU3700000_002_VW37.rod
       VCID: 3D2430FE4DFE6DBF70C-8068
    
    1 Fault Found:
    13637888 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:57
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg (J428)       Labels:| 5Q0-907-572-V1.clb
       Part No SW: 5Q0 907 572 D    HW: 5Q0 907 572 D
       Component: ACC Bosch MQB H05 0304  
       Serial number: 13091403211821
       Coding: 00000300FE0739
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00067
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372 001015
       ROD: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372_VW26.rod
       VCID: 382A21EA62DC4897A3A-806C
    
    2 Faults Found:
    1094 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:56
    
                        Control Module temperature: 8 C
                        Voltage terminal 15: 12.3 V
                        Vehicle speed: 0.00 m/s
                        Acceleration: 0.00 m/s
    
    1095 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:55
    
                        Control Module temperature: 8 C
                        Voltage terminal 15: 12.2 V
                        Vehicle speed: 0.00 m/s
                        Acceleration: 0.00 m/s
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5Q0-959-655.clb
       Part No SW: 5Q0 959 655 AA    HW: 5Q0 959 655 AA
       Component: AirbagVW20    014 0386  
       Serial number: 003MLR08TR8G
       Coding: 98FCC0C0000000005C5400CF00C800000065
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00065
       ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW20SMEVW37X 002130
       ROD: EV_AirbaVW20SMEVW37X_VW37.rod
       VCID: 7F580AF60772BFAF220-802A
    
       Belt Pretensioner left: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5G0 980 945 B    HW: 5G0 980 945 B
       Component: BeltPretRevFL  H35 0341 
       Serial number: 34169677B23091440735
       Coding: 333135
    
       Belt Pretensioner right: 
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5G0 980 946 B    HW: 5G0 980 946 B
       Component: BeltPretRevFR  H35 0341 
       Serial number: 34169676B22091441270
       Coding: 333135
    
       Side Sensor Driver Front: 
       Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 480 001 609 14
       Component: SideSensor_Df  001 0887 
       Serial number: 35767000000BE799011.
       Coding: 2D2D2D
    
       Side Sensor Passenger Front: 
       Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 480 002 209 14
       Component: SideSensor_Pf  001 0887 
       Serial number: 3586700000048A88111R
       Coding: 2D2D2D
    
       Side Sensor Driver Rear: 
       Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 480 401 709 14
       Component: SideSensor_Dr  001 6149 
       Serial number: 3516502AB176A6B3702A
       Coding: 2D2D2D
    
       Side Sensor Passenger Rear: 
       Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 480 401 609 14
       Component: SideSensor_Pr  001 6149 
       Serial number: 3526502BB176A6B2C2DT
       Coding: 2D2D2D
    
       Front Sensor Driver: 
       Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 480 401 409 14
       Component: FrontSensor_D  001 6149 
       Serial number: 3556502BD175A8D3137M
       Coding: 2D2D2D
    
    1 Fault Found:
    1054981 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 48
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:45:01
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5G0-920-XXX-17.clb
       Part No SW: 5G1 920 950     HW: 5G1 920 950 
       Component: KOMBI         304 4270  
       Coding: 27A411002F80A60001887E011400000000000000
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00067
       ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB 009037
       ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB_009_VW26.rod
       VCID: 6696BF9278E80E67C16-8032
    
    1 Fault Found:
    13639936 - Databus 
              U1123 00 [008] - Received Error Message
              Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00000001
                        Fault Priority: 6
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 40
                        Mileage: 19791 km
                        Date: 2017.11.25
                        Time: 17:44:56
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:39, VBatt start/end: 12.5V/12.4V)-----------
    Last edited by VAG-Dave; 11-29-2017 at 10:58 AM.

  2. Likes Uwe, jyoung8607, vodonnell liked this post
  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    23,858
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Day-um. Why the heck is it that important for all those system to know the OAT?

    And why can't they just use a reasonable substitute value like 20C?

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  4. Likes VAG-Dave liked this post
  5. #3
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Day-um. Why the heck is it that important for all those system to know the OAT?

    And why can't they just use a reasonable substitute value like 20C?

    -Uwe-
    Exactly...my thoughts, which is why I thought I'd warn people...


    My breakdown of what needs the sensor:-

    01-Engine:- (no idea why it uses this as it has enough other air sensors like the MAF etc, but I can see it might need it)
    03-ABS Brakes:- (TPMS yes it needs it as air pressure in tyres alters with ambient air temp)
    08-Auto HVAC:- (ok maybe because it needs to "weather compensate" for outside air temp, like my house heating uses outside air sensor)
    09-Cent. Elect.:- (the G17 sensor is wired to this so ok to throw a fault code)
    10-Park/Steer Assist:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    13-Auto Dist. Reg:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    15-Airbags:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    17-Instruments:- (ok so the display is in the cluster)

    There is weird stuff going on !!!

  6. Likes Uwe liked this post
  7. #4
    Verified VCDS User NZDubNurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    And why can't they just use a reasonable substitute value like 20C?
    Ve are ze Chermans, and it must be korrect! (at least until we've finished fixing it under warranty!)

    If they did that and it was really 36C, maybe the little TSI motors would melt pistons even earlier

    Sorry.

  8. #5
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    467
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by VAG-Dave View Post
    Exactly...my thoughts, which is why I thought I'd warn people...


    My breakdown of what needs the sensor:-

    01-Engine:- (no idea why it uses this as it has enough other air sensors like the MAF etc, but I can see it might need it)
    03-ABS Brakes:- (TPMS yes it needs it as air pressure in tyres alters with ambient air temp)
    08-Auto HVAC:- (ok maybe because it needs to "weather compensate" for outside air temp, like my house heating uses outside air sensor)
    09-Cent. Elect.:- (the G17 sensor is wired to this so ok to throw a fault code)
    10-Park/Steer Assist:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    13-Auto Dist. Reg:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    15-Airbags:- (really WTF does it need it for??)
    17-Instruments:- (ok so the display is in the cluster)

    There is weird stuff going on !!!
    Engine is the most important one here. Intake and outside air temperature are correction values for the fuel injection.

  9. #6
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterTommy View Post
    Engine is the most important one here. Intake and outside air temperature are correction values for the fuel injection.

    Ok I thought it might be the case...

    Anyway,
    15-Airbags:- Looking at the problems with the propellants of airbags & their sensitivity to air temp changes I recon this is required for various safety aspects inc force or lack off if air temp affects the propellant etc.

    Still can't figure out why these need it:-
    10-Park/Steer Assist:
    13-Auto Dist. Reg:

  10. Likes NZDubNurd liked this post
  11. #7
    Verified VCDS User iichel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    The Hague, NL
    Posts
    1,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by NZDubNurd View Post
    Ve are ze Chermans, and it must be korrect!
    Ordnung muss sein. Order must be.

    I'm still a bit puzzled by the PDC and the ACC. Maybe they made the conductivity of the air for the ultrasound and radar signals a function of the ambient air temperature. I can see them do it.

  12. Likes NZDubNurd liked this post
  13. #8
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by iichel View Post
    I'm still a bit puzzled by the PDC and the ACC. Maybe they made the conductivity of the air for the ultrasound and radar signals a function of the ambient air temperature. I can see them do it.
    Your guess is right!!

    Got me thinking so I had a look in the VW ERWIN self study guides

    No.494 Park assist steering

    This covers various versions inc the radar & sensors...

    & it states that G17 is used because "It has an influence on the calculation of measured distances to obstacles because the air density changes & consequently the propagation speed of ultra sound waves."

    So that's it....ALL modules now explained as to why they rely on the G17 outside temperature sensor...

  14. #9
    Verified VCDS User
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by iichel View Post
    Ordnung muss sein. Order must be.

    I'm still a bit puzzled by the PDC and the ACC. Maybe they made the conductivity of the air for the ultrasound and radar signals a function of the ambient air temperature. I can see them do it.
    There is a saying about German stuff. Why make it simple when we can make it so beautiful and complicated. But the air density makes sense in the long run, learn something new everyday, LOL.

    Larimore

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •