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Thread: EV Thread

  1. #551
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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  2. #552
    Ross-Tech Employee Eric's Avatar
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    Obd2?.....
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  4. #553
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    A regular Niro: $23,490
    A PHEV Niro: $28,500
    A BEV Niro: $38,500

    Seems to me that $15k would buy a lot of gasoline. So let's see if a BEV Niro make economic sense at all:

    The regular Niro ostensibly gets 46 MPG (EPA Highway) and 49 (EPA Combined). Let's use 45 for the sake of argument, and let's pretend gasoline costs $3.00 per gallon, while electricity is free (which it obviously isn't).

    The break-even comes no sooner than 225,000 miles.

    Will the battery in the BEV go that distance?

    Oh, and the regular Niro has twice the range too.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  5. #554
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    A regular Niro: $23,490
    A PHEV Niro: $28,500
    A BEV Niro: $38,500

    Seems to me that $15k would buy a lot of gasoline. So let's see if a BEV Niro make economic sense at all:

    The regular Niro ostensibly gets 46 MPG (EPA Highway) and 49 (EPA Combined). Let's use 45 for the sake of argument, and let's pretend gasoline costs $3.00 per gallon, while electricity is free (which it obviously isn't).

    The break-even comes no sooner than 225,000 miles.

    Will the battery in the BEV go that distance?

    Oh, and the regular Niro has twice the range too.
    Uwe - you've illustrated perfectly why EVs don't make economic sense for many people yet (despite what some EV owners and EV supporters say).

    The initial cost (and interest on loans to "upgrade" from current vehicle) are high enough to make it difficult/impossible for some people to own an EV in the first place, and even then the lower running costs (as you illustrate) don't offset that within a sensible break-even distance/time - and if you add-on the cost of replacement battery pack(s) the break-even mileage/time becomes even longer.

    It's easy for politicians to promise net-zero emissions by 2050 (as the outgoing UK Prime Minister has done recently) but then they don't have to pay the cost of their grandeose gestures

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  7. #555
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    I've probably said it before, and no doubt will have to say it again, EV is less about cost efficiency than about trying to protect the future.

    Will we already have to be at the mad max point, before people understand that oil won't last forever?

    And while the first party economics may look grim, try that again with the secondary market vehicles.

    I bought a 3 year old 40k+ vehicle for ~15k. Whether it was initially overpriced, or undervalued at 3 years, who can say.

    I plan to drive it till the wheels fall off or the last cell gives up the ghost.

    it still may or may not beat a pure gas vehicle, but it is heading the direction where we need to get to.

    and to Uwe's point above, the PHEV's looks like they will continue to be a more economical option for the near future anyway.

  8. #556
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Dub View Post
    EV is less about cost efficiency than about trying to protect the future.
    Which is all well and good if you have the finances that allow you to purchase an EV - certainly in the UK even the cheapest used EVs are still considerably more expensive than many used gas/diesel vehicles so for many people who need personal transport (because they live in areas where there is no public transport) they are not an option yet. Add to that the currently very limited charging infrastructure in many areas away from the major conurbations, and you have a situation where even if the economics work the practicalities don't.

    Keeping your job and feeding your family today is a higher priority for many than protecting the future - survival in the short term is more important to them than protecting the long term. Sad but that's the economic reality for many in the First World not just the Second and Third Worlds

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  10. #557
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    sure, no doubt.

    no one who is in survival mode should be buying any new car, and even if/when new ICE vehicles fall to the side, there is still an enormous depth to the secondary market (ICE or *EV) and the buyer should be buying according to their own need situation from whatever available sources.

    Or using public transportation (which would be great if we should all be using more, eh?).

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  12. #558
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Dub View Post
    Or using public transportation (which would be great if we should all be using more, eh?).
    In many rural areas there simply is NO public transportation, so personal mobility is an absolute must-have.

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  14. #559
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  15. #560
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Dub View Post
    Neat. But 10kWh? With bus aerodynamics, they'll be doing well if it has 20 miles of range.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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