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Thread: Team Atlas

  1. #11
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    Do be aware, if you're not already, that the P3 can be installed at any reasonable pitch tilt but cannot be angled in yaw or roll, and like any inertial controller, should have a fixed mount and not move around after it's calibrated itself at startup.
    Believe me Jason, I had it mounted properly and well within specs per the manual.

    Back in the olden days (get off my lawn!), I had a racing data acquisition system based on a bi-axis accelerometer. Because the designer cheaped out on the third axis, it was biased whenever operated away from true level (or what it was told was true level at the beginning of the run). The software had fudge factors to make the maps look straight to compensate for the bad/missing data, but even so it took 5 minutes to tweak a map from a 1-minute lap.

    The logic in the single-axis P3 seems to be similar. I suspect that it picks g=0 the moment that the brake lights turn on, regardless of the tow vehicle's orientation or engine braking status. If you are doing 0.2g of engine braking on a downhill grade and press the stop pedal for another 0.2g, the tow vehicle is braking at 0.4g but the P3 is telling the trailer to brake at 0.2g because that's what it sees. On the other end of the spectrum, if you press the stop pedal at the crest of a downhill grade, it picks g=0 when the tow vehicle is level but over-brakes as the nose goes down the hill because it sees the orientation change as additional braking force so it brakes the trailer too hard.

    What really pisses me off about the P3 is that they have the gall to charge $149 for the turd, and using a tri-axis accelerometer would only have raised the per-unit cost by a few bucks. Heck, many of the TOY quadcopter drones have better sensors than the P3, and this bad boy is $6.99 street price...on a breakout board:

    https://www.amazon.com/MPU6050-Six-A...dp/B01F9QKPSQ/

    Anyway, I have given you a warning about this dangerous device so my conscience is clear. If you choose to run into a tree or rear-end a dump truck because the P3 was playing Hyde and not Jeckyl on your next emergency stop, that's your decision.....

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  3. #12
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    The logic in the single-axis P3 seems to be similar. I suspect that it picks g=0 the moment that the brake lights turn on, regardless of the tow vehicle's orientation or engine braking status. If you are doing 0.2g of engine braking on a downhill grade and press the stop pedal for another 0.2g, the tow vehicle is braking at 0.4g but the P3 is telling the trailer to brake at 0.2g because that's what it sees.
    Uh... this seems like correct behavior. If I'm on a long downhill grade and I step down a gear or two to avoid smoking my brakes, that applies to all my brakes. And, I expect a light touch of the brakes to result in a light touch of the brakes all around. I do not expect a yank from the tail or other large sudden change in handling.

    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    On the other end of the spectrum, if you press the stop pedal at the crest of a downhill grade, it picks g=0 when the tow vehicle is level but over-brakes as the nose goes down the hill because it sees the orientation change as additional braking force so it brakes the trailer too hard.
    You may be right, I don't know, but I can't really picture in my mind how yaw and roll detection changes it either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Anyway, I have given you a warning about this dangerous device so my conscience is clear. If you choose to run into a tree or rear-end a dump truck because the P3 was playing Hyde and not Jeckyl on your next emergency stop, that's your decision.....
    Well I do appreciate the advice, and I will keep an even closer eye on it. That said, if you genuinely find that your P3 is trying to kill you on a regular basis, then your experiences seem to be at odds with the rest of the Interwebs and perhaps your particular unit is defective.

    Jason

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  5. #13
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    I know what the forum-think is about the P3. The same people probably voted for Trump and sent money to a Nigerian prince. As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.

    With only one axis, the thing is nothing more than a solid state pendulum controller with a fancy LCD readout that contributes nada to the braking function.....

  6. #14
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I can tell you what the Atlas uses the same crummy timing chain as in the early VR6 that stretches.........

    Lets see what happens!
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    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  7. #15
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Atlas crash testing. I've seen plenty of crash test videos but this is the first time I've really studied one in-depth for a car I actually own and drive.



    It says something about the body strength that it's enough to shatter both the wheel and the brake rotor inside it before substantially yielding. In fact, I wonder if there's been some engineering done there to make sure the wheel and other components fail first in this scenario.

    The thing I'm most curious about is that the battery has clearly been tampered with. The negative terminal is covered with tape. It's unclear to me that it was even hooked up to the car at time of death. I wonder what IIHS were up to there? I viewed a Mk7 GTI crash test for comparison, and it appears that all MQBs eject the battery in a severe crash for safety reasons. It makes me wonder about timing of triggering airbags, if the airbag module has a capacitor to deal with loss of power.


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  9. #16
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Replying to myself...

    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    The thing I'm most curious about is that the battery has clearly been tampered with. The negative terminal is covered with tape. It's unclear to me that it was even hooked up to the car at time of death. I wonder what IIHS were up to there?
    Turns out the test protocol calls for all vehicle fluids to be drained, including the battery electrolyte, and the car is powered from a separate custom onboard source for the duration of the test.

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  11. #17
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    It makes me wonder about timing of triggering airbags, if the airbag module has a capacitor to deal with loss of power.
    All airbag modules have a capacitor so they can fire the airbags even if power is lost during the accident - this is why it is always advised to wait several minutes after disconnecting the battery before working on airbags, to allow time for the capacitors to discharge.

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  13. #18
    Administrator Andy's Avatar
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    Hey Jason, have you tried tweaking remote windows in your Atlas? A customer emailed us a scan asking about it and I couldn't find anything definitive. I remember poking around in menus in the new Tiguan and saw Comfort Windows but I didn't even try it since I didn't want to mangle the Monroney sticker on a vehicle I wasn't buying.

  14. #19
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Hey Jason, have you tried tweaking remote windows in your Atlas? A customer emailed us a scan asking about it and I couldn't find anything definitive. I remember poking around in menus in the new Tiguan and saw Comfort Windows but I didn't even try it since I didn't want to mangle the Monroney sticker on a vehicle I wasn't buying.
    Haven't thought about it to date. I just walked out with the key to test, and I have neither up nor down enabled from the factory. I should think it possible to enable somehow. I'll poke around later tonight and see what I can see.
    Silence gives consent.

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  16. #20
    Administrator Andy's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jason. FYI, this is what I saw in the 2018 Tiguan:


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