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Thread: Help HVAC ECON Fault criteria code 4

  1. #1
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    Question Help HVAC ECON Fault criteria code 4

    I have a 2004 B6 Audi A4 Quattro with APR K04 upgrade kit. A few months back, the AC got stuck in ECON mode. I have tried replacing both the G65 and the console HVAC controller, but neither has been able to rectify the issue. The EMC seems to be sending full 12 V through the signal wire, which is preventing the AC from kicking on (as return is then 12V and reads as max pressure from the G65). I have traced back the wires, and there seem to be no shorts. I took the car to Audi, and they confirmed that the AC blows cold if they manually cycle the compressor. I have tried in vain to use VCDS to clear the fault codes, and there seems to be little information on SHUT-OFF CODE 4 on the web. I think I somehow need to clear or disable the number 4 shut-off code, as it is stuck on. Here is some info from the VCDS readouts. Any advice would be greatly appreciated (I'll even paypal you $40 if you can help me fix it!). I've spent about 12 hours myself, and 2 hours shop time with Audi and there's no solution in sight. SoCal is not much fun without AC!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Address 08: Auto HVAC (8E0 820 043 AD)

    16:25:23 Group 002: Compressor Shut-Off Criteria
    4.0 Current Shut-Off Criteria
    0.0 Last Shut-Off Criteria
    0.0 Second to Last Shut-Off Criteria
    0.0 Third to Last Shut-Off Criteria

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
    Control Module Part Number: 8E0 820 043 AD
    Component and/or Version: A4 Klimaautomat 1324
    Software Coding: 00000
    Work Shop Code: WSC 63351
    VCID: 63CBA326F191BF5994-5178
    3 Faults Found:

    01172 - Temperature Sensor; Driver's Heated Seat (G59)
    30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    01171 - Temperature Sensor; Passenger Side Heated Seat (G60)
    30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65)
    30-00 - Open or Short to Plus

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
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    Shut off code 4 is "Fault code stored", so you will need to fix at least the 00819 error to clear it.

    Can you post a full autoscan in code (see the "how to post an autoscan" thread) and also MVB group 001 as you did with group 002 in your first post?
    Last edited by Uwe; 06-30-2017 at 06:37 PM. Reason: added link

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  4. #3
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    So I found some interesting behavior. I shorted the signal wire to ground, shut off the car, reconnected the G65, then turned the car back on again and checked for faults. This time was still the number 4 shut-off code, but the stored code became short to ground. It's like the car is stuck in shut-off code 4, and will just report whatever the last fault condition was. No matter what sequential combination I try, I cannot clear the shut-off code 4 from the EMC. I am wondering if there is some manual way to clear a shut-off code 4, or otherwise disable storing. Here is the additional information you requested, thanks in advance for any help or insight.

    Code:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
              67 69 75 76 77
     
    VIN: WAULC68E14A   Mileage: 280030km-174002miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 909 518 AK    HW: 8E0 909 018 A
       Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0003  
       Coding: 0016711
       Shop #: WSC 13111 281 411174
       VCID: 79F7E14E331D5589AE-5178
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 1000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 614 517 A
       Component: ABS/ESP allrad      4529  
       Coding: 04275
       Shop #: WSC 06435  
       VCID: 264DFA32C2230A71B3-513C
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
                35-10 -  -  - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 820 043 AD
       Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   1324  
       Coding: 00000
       Shop #: WSC 63351  
       VCID: 63CBA326F191BF5994-5178
    
    3 Faults Found:
    01172 - Temperature Sensor; Driver's Heated Seat (G59) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    01171 - Temperature Sensor; Passenger Side Heated Seat (G60) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 907 279 F
       Component: int. Lastmodul  USA 0617  
       Coding: 01013
       Shop #: WSC 63351  
       VCID: 356F2D7E0F8571E90A-4B32
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01494 - Bulb for Parking Lamps; Left (M1) 
                57-00 - Electric Circuit Failure
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 959 655 K
       Component: Airbag 8.4EP        1001  
       Coding: 0010607
       Shop #: WSC 63351 000 00000
       VCID: 3F834F566DB9BBB9D0-5178
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 953 549 N
       Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0611  
       Coding: 01041
       Shop #: WSC 63351  
       VCID: 3E7D32523AB3B2B1DB-4B32
    
    2 Faults Found:
    00474 - Control Module for Immobilizer 
                49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
    00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 920 950 P
       Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D42  
       Coding: 01201
       Shop #: WSC 22103  
       VCID: 366D2A7212837AF103-515A
       WAULC68E14A275803     AUZ6Z0D0137934
    
    3 Faults Found:
    00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17) 
                30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
    01314 - Engine Control Module 
                49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
    01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255) 
                49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.clb
       Part No: 8E0 959 433 BB
       Component: Komfortgerát T7B    1512  
       Coding: 11788
       Shop #: WSC 14138  
       VCID: 72E5D6623E6B26D1EF-4B18
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E1959801
       Component: Tőrsteuer.FS BRM 0205  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E1959802E
       Component: Tőrsteuer.BF BRM 0204  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801A
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HL BRM 0204  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802A
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HR BRM 0204  
    
    6 Faults Found:
    01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393) 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255) 
                49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
    01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386) 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387) 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388) 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389) 
                53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4Z7-907-357.lbl
       Part No: 4Z7 907 357 
       Component: dynamische LWR       D09  
       Coding: 00060
       Shop #: WSC 63351  
       VCID: 040980BA14DF1861CD-4B32
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01534 - Control Circuit for Left Headlight Range Adjusting Motor (V48) 
                30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:58)--------------------------
    Groups log:
    Code:
                    Address 08: Auto HVAC  (8E0 820 043 AD)
    
    19:06:56 Group 001
      0.000 A  A/C Valve (N280) Current
      0.0 %  A/C Valve (N280) Duty Cycle
      100.0 %  High-Pressure Signal (G65)
      33.0 bar  Refrigerant Circuit Pressure
    
    19:06:56 Group 002: Compressor Shut-Off Criteria
      4.0  Current Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Last Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Second to Last Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Third to Last Shut-Off Criteria
    
    19:06:56 Group 010: Temperatures II
      41.0°C  Evaporator Outflow Temp. (G263)
      38.5°C  Fresh Air Intake Duct Temp. (G89)
      31.0°C  Calculated Ambient Temp.
      43.0°C  Measured Ambient Temp. (G17)
    Last edited by Uwe; 07-01-2017 at 09:28 AM. Reason: CODE tags

  5. #4
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    Over pressure switch G65 is saying that the system is overpressurised 33bar static is very high, put on a set of refrigeration gauges on the high and low sides and check actual pressure.

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  7. #5
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    If the actual pressure in the system is ok, check MVB 001.3 again with the G65 disconnected. If it stays at 100%, you'll need to get a WD and trace that signal wire back to find out where the 12v signal is coming from.

    If your G65 has 3 pins, there should be a 12v+, a 12v-, and a PWM signal. Am I correct in thinking you have checked the signal wire at the G65 connector with the G65 disconnected and found 12v+?

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  9. #6
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    Thank you vodonnell and Mr M for the help. I disconnected the G65 and checked the MVB values (pasted below): the signal is still at 100%. I then followed it up by measuring the signal wire (pin 2) at the connector and found 13V in the disconnected setting. Voltage stayed at 13V with the HVAC turned off, and with it on (stuck in ECON). I tried to ground out the signal wire on the alternator, but when I measured again, it was back up to 13V. So 13V is being sent down the signal wire at all times. Furthermore, with the car off and key out of the ignition, I was still picking up 12V from the signal wire (slowly dropping). I will trace back the wire to see if there is a short. Question that might help me: is the signal wire to the G65 normally 6V? Is there ever a time when the computer would send a 12V signal down the wire (like if the computer is disabling the compressor by sending a 100% signal due to shutoff code 4). I suspect that the computer is disabling the compressor with a 12V to the G65, but I'll do my due diligence. Thanks again.

    Code:
    Address 08: Auto HVAC  (8E0 820 043 AD)
    
    14:08:48 Group 001
      0.000 A  A/C Valve (N280) Current
      0.0 %  A/C Valve (N280) Duty Cycle
      100.0 %  High-Pressure Signal (G65)
      33.0 bar  Refrigerant Circuit Pressure
    
    14:08:48 Group 002: Compressor Shut-Off Criteria
      4.0  Current Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Last Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Second to Last Shut-Off Criteria
      0.0  Third to Last Shut-Off Criteria
    
    14:08:48 Group 010: Temperatures II
      44.0°C  Evaporator Outflow Temp. (G263)
      42.5°C  Fresh Air Intake Duct Temp. (G89)
      32.0°C  Calculated Ambient Temp.
      32.0°C  Measured Ambient Temp. (G17)
    Last edited by colinmuir; 07-01-2017 at 04:34 PM. Reason: add code tag

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  11. #7
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    So I disconnected the signal wire from the back of the E87 (HVAC head unit) with all other wires/connectors still attached to the E87 (isolated the signal wire only). With the car running, the disconnected wire shows 0V (no short) and the signal male pin from the E87 connector has 13V. So the HVAC head is sending full voltage through the signal wire to disable the AC. I suspect it's because I can't clear the shut-off code 4 that's somehow stored in the computer. Any ideas? Please and thank you!

  12. #8
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    Sounds like water ingress on the floor to the seat heaters to me............and causing an implausible issue for the controller resulting in AC shut down.
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    If I was looking at this, my next action would be to connect the G65, and disconnect the signal wire from the back of the HVAC panel again. Then check the following on the signal wire with the engine running:

    DC voltage
    Frequency
    Duty cycle

    These need to be checked using a DVOM, with black lead to ground and red lead to signal wire.

    Question that might help me: is the signal wire to the G65 normally 6V?
    No, the sensor is powered with 12v and it then generates a pulsed (or square wave) 12v signal on the signal pin/wire. The HVAC controller requires this signal to allow correct control of the system, therefore without it the compressor will not be activated. Have you measured 6v with a meter on the signal wire? If so, this could be correct for a 12v PWM signal

    Shut-off codes cannot be manually cleared; they can only be cleared by the module itself when it is satisfied that the reason for the code has gone. In your case, once the stored fault codes have been addressed and cleared by you, shut-off code 4 will be cleared by the module.

    Sounds like water ingress on the floor to the seat heaters to me............and causing an implausible issue for the controller resulting in AC shut down.
    This is a good point, why are there DTCs stored relating to the seat heaters?
    Last edited by Mr. M; 07-02-2017 at 05:17 AM.

  15. #10
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    This is a good point, why are there DTCs stored relating to the seat heaters?
    I have seen this a few times already.........and it is not likely to have temp sensor issues in both circuits all sharing a short to B+...........


    NostraJackAss Has Spoken Ipse-Dixit !
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