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Thread: LED Bulb Coding - License Plate Light Without Pulse Width Modulation Option

  1. #11
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    Yes they probably are illegal, although i'm not sure would make the LED lamps legal?

    There are plenty of vehicles out there now with OEM LED rear lights that are very bright.

    The signal lamps that i have fitted are virtually identical in brightness to a standard filament lamp.


    Anyway, i checked my codings and mine is exactly the same as GaryM.

    However, when i did an autoscan, it showed a fault in the lamp location where i tried the LED lamp as a short circuit.

    So, with that in mind, legalities aside, i would say that leaving the settings at default and using a good quality LED lamp, the circuitry will not dim the LED.

    Having said that, i will still give the Philips ones a go when they arrive and report back.

  2. #12
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    I have yet to find a single LED with series resistor which is certified, meaning all the ones I have seen so far will make your car illegal on the streets. Since the UK is still part of the EU for the time being, I am also assuming this is the case for you guys.
    Keep in mind that UK legislation for vehicle lighting hasn't had any changes to it since 1989 so you probably won't be surprised to hear that everything regarding approval markings refers to "filament" bulbs with no mention at all about either LED or HID/Xenon discharge gas lighting because neither had been invented at that point in time. However, if you tried to argue the toss in court because your car has LED bulbs and not "filament" bulbs, I'm not sure if you would come out of it unscathed If you're interested, the legalities are under The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, Regulation 14 HERE.

    The UK MOT which is equivalent of the German TÜV but far less strict also has no mention of the test requiring the MOT'er to check any bulbs for approval markings. It is just a visual check to ensure that all light bulbs are working and are of a white or yellow colour, with a machine check to ensure that main beams headlights are correctly aligned (details HERE).

    That probably explains why we have thousands of cars driving around in the UK with Chinese manufactured aftermarket LED bulbs fitted to them, none of which have any type of approval whatsoever, and where no-one in authority so much as bats an eyelid at them.

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  4. #13
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasons6930 View Post
    Anyway, i checked my codings and mine is exactly the same as GaryM.

    However, when i did an autoscan, it showed a fault in the lamp location where i tried the LED lamp as a short circuit.

    So, with that in mind, legalities aside, i would say that leaving the settings at default and using a good quality LED lamp, the circuitry will not dim the LED.

    Having said that, i will still give the Philips ones a go when they arrive and report back.
    The only foolproof way to fit LEDs in place of incandescent bulbs and stop the "bulb out" warning indicator being triggered is to completely turn off the bulb diagnosis check circuits. Doing that then avoids the need to use dummy resistors to unnecessarily load the circuit and in theory you should just be able to use cheap(ish) automotive LEDs without needing to bother with any of the CAN Bus specific ones or any fancy expensive types like the ones you posted a link to.

    On some of the older BCMs you used to be able to turn off the bulb cold diagnosis checks under Byte 18 (see screenshot below) but for the newer PQ35 BCMs, the coding for Byte 18 changed to pre-defined lighting schemes which if changed can completely ruin your lighting system so it's a minefield to be avoided unless you know exactly what you are doing. On the newer PQ35 BCMs you can only disable the cold diagnosis checks for the license plate bulb circuit as shown in the screenshots of post #1 of this thread. If you want to switch off cold bulb diagnosis for other bulb circuits then you need to use another diagnostics tool that has the ability to directly edit EEPROM values in the BCM because VCDS is (purposely) unable to do that. This is what I will be doing next after I've changed the and coded the license plate bulbs to use LED bulbs. Baby steps first


    Last edited by GaryM; 05-05-2017 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Minor wording amendment

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  6. #14
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    Yes i think EEPROM is something that i will stay away from, and make do with trying various LED bulbs to see what works etc.

    As usual with VW, they are taking more and more away from the home enthusiast and independent repair workshops to try and keep it all in house.

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM View Post

    I understand that PWM is used to control the brightness (dimming) of incandescent bulbs, but what about controlling the brightness of LEDs? This can also be achieved with PWM so I'm not quite sure I understand why PWM would not be required for LED bulbs. If PWM is left switched on, would there be any detrimental effects of this on an LED bulb or the lighting circuit of the BCM itself?
    Gary: As usual, your post raises some very interesting questions! I'm not sure about the details of the system for dimming control in your particular car, but I can describe my findings for how lamp dimming seems to work on VW cars that use Leuchte channels - I suspect that the fundamentals are the same, regardless of vehicle.

    As you may be aware, Leuchte channel control can accommodate both incandescent and LED lamps and PWM is used for dimming - like your car. Also, it's possible to select the exact degree of lamp dimming (0-100 for incandescent & 0-127 for LED) - not sure if this is the same in your car.

    Here is the voltage trace for an output lamp pin on the BCM with the leuchte channel set for a LED lamp and with a dimming level selection of 50%:



    Notice that despite the 50% dimming level, the duty cycle of the wave-form is actually more like 60%. What appears to happen is that the duty cycle of the square wave above 100 (for LED settings) doesn't change - so I assume that something else happens (perhaps the current waveform alters) at settings from 100-127.

    Notice also that the waveform frequency is 200 Hz (i.e. 50 msec). With Leuchte channels, it's possible to select specific settings to accommodate a large variety of LED lamp types (i.e. different wattage) and its also possible to select these lamps for differing applications (i.e. turn-signal, bakes etc). However, regardless of the selection, the same 200 Hz frequency appears to apply and it seems that the wattage type selection changes the dimming/duty cycle variance of the waveform - albeit there are only a few allowable variances- so LED wattage selection is bunched together into these few options.

    If an incandescent lamp type is selected (instead of LED) - what appears to happen to the voltage trace is that the PWM frequency is halved (i.e. the time-base of the waveform is more like 10 msec) and the duty cycle of the square wave is more linear with the dimming level.

    So, moral of the story is yes- indeed PWM is an acceptable method of dimming control for LEDs on VW vehicles (at least where Leuchte channels are concerned).

    Don

    PS: I haven't as yet investigated what happens to the waveform of the electrical current to these lamp type settings, As you probably already know, LEDs are current devices, rather than voltage devices, so this is probably more important for your question . I'm not sure if the PWM capability of the BCM has a current limiting function (I suspect that it does -given that Leuchte channel BCM s don't use in-line fuses), or if the operation is more simplistic (as Uwe has suggested in a previous response). Something to look-at later when time allows
    Last edited by DV52; 05-05-2017 at 06:56 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  9. #16
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    As an update to this, i tried a different can friendly LED single contact lamp in the stop/tail socket.

    As you will see from the video, when the lamp is turned on from the switch, it is very, very dim, however, if i put my foot on the brake pedal it goes to full brightness, but then if i take my foot off, it stabilises at a dimmer output for tail light duties and seems stable.

    I will do a scan later and see what faults it throws back.

    Please excuse the diabolical quality of the video

    I guess the flickering is the frame rate of the awesome iPhone7 as it does not do it to the naked eye.





    Ok here is the scan, which shows no faults logged.

    However, this time, I tried the lamp in the passenger side, but i will admit, that when i tried an LED before that threw up faults, it was a different colour (amber) and was on the drivers side, but was exactly the same make and model.

    No coding or changes were made with settings and are left as factory default.

    If anyone has any suggestions as to how to make them energise properly from start up (dimmed) it would be appreciated.

    Or, if anyone would like me to try some changes in VCDS, i'm happy to do that, although nothing too tech please!


    Code:
    Saturday,06,May,2017,17:33:52:35443
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 17.1.3.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4336.4
    Data version: 20170320 DS267.7
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: WV1ZZZ2KZHX100354   License Plate: SCAN1
    Mileage: 2810km-1746mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 2K (7N0)
    Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 13 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 5F 61
    
    VIN: WV1ZZZ2KZHX100354   Mileage: 2810km-1746miles
    
    01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
    04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
    10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: OK 0000
    15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
    61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine (J623-DFSB)       Labels: 04L-907-309-V1.clb
       Part No SW: 04L 906 016 HB    HW: 04L 907 309 K
       Component: R4 2,0L EDC   H20 1802  
       Revision: 8AH20---    
       Coding: 01190032044515090000
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01104L906016HB 001003
       ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01104L906016GR_VN35.rod
       VCID: 70BAD99CEA2BB4B7DD9-8024
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: Redir Fail!
       Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 P    HW: 7E0 907 379 M
       Component: ESC           H06 0133  
       Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 40107000000821
       Coding: 1079409BB262B47E0878027B4D862DE379F5F0
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2 011001
       ROD: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2_011_VN35.rod
       VCID: 3FD84AA0E7F51BCF143-806A
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: 5K0-907-044.clb
       Part No SW: 1K8 907 044 CH    HW: 1K8 907 044 CH
       Component: Climatronic   H08 0405  
       Revision: 00001K06    
       Coding: 0510004003
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
       ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW32.rod
       VCID: 77A8E2808F45E38F1C3-8022
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 937 086 AA    HW: 5K0 937 086 AA
       Component: BCM PQ35 M+   122 0184  
       Revision: BD122001    
       Coding: 491A58F88025E16A088800809100896C037D000862208760E484C7000041
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 73B0D6909BBD8FAF20B-8026
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 2K2 955 119 D  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
       Component: Wischer 02011  26  0512 
       Coding: 009F95
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 5K7 955 559 C  Labels: 5K7-955-559.CLB
       Component: RLS 211216 04  42  0106 
       Coding: 0228DD
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 7N0 951 172 
       Component: Sensor, DWA 0  005 0502 
       Coding: 000000
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 F
       Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H01 0008 
       Coding: 000000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J791)       Labels: 5Q0-919-298.clb
       Part No SW: 1K8 919 475 D    HW: 5Q0 919 298 
       Component: PARKHILFE PLA H12 0480  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 39431634901859
       Coding: 0131061041
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA2CVW364GP00 001010
       ROD: EV_EPHVA2CVW364GP00.rod
       VCID: 3B203EB0F3ED07EF38B-806E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg (J428)       Labels: 7N0-907-572.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 572 C    HW: 7N0 907 572 
       Component: ACC Bosch PQx H03 0211  
       Serial number: 04011704388226
       Coding: 00000000FE0339
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ACCBEGVW361 001006
       ROD: EV_ACCBEGVW361.rod
       VCID: 36362F84C8CFDA87C75-8062
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels: 5K0-959-655.clb
       Part No SW: 2K5 959 655 B    HW: 2K5 959 655 B
       Component: VW10Airbag00K H08 0018  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 003V1002FW42
       Coding: 00000000000000000000000000000000304B
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVW12X 001028
       ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750.rod
       VCID: 3B203EB0F3ED07EF38B-806E
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
       Serial number: 3497ARB4004597JCVK9J
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
       Serial number: 3507ARB401457GMESAUW
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels: 5K0-953-569.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 521 GE    HW: 5K0 953 569 BF
       Component: LENKS.MODUL   018 0230  
       Revision: FF010042    Serial number: 20170103301131
       Coding: 1082C60008
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSR8C 001001
       ROD: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSR8C.rod
       VCID: 75B4E8889549919F0EF-8020
    
       Multifunction steering wheel control module: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 2K0 959 442 A    HW: 2K0 959 442 A  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
       Component: E221__MFL-TAT  H06 0023 
       Serial number: 0021719505201432BC1B
       Coding: 2C0000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
       Part No SW: 2K5 920 976 E    HW: 2K5 920 976 E
       Component: KOMBI         H03 1104  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 410E021200
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A05733
       ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_VN35.rod
       VCID: 382A21BCC2DB2CF7D59-806C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 BL    HW: 7N0 907 530 AN
       Component: J533  Gateway H56 1682  
       Revision:   H56       Serial number: 081216F1002876
       Coding: 357431
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 7BA0FEB0B3EDC7EF78B-802E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
       Component: IMMO          H03 1104  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 000000
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
       ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
       VCID: 6A8ECBF4CCF74E6793D-803E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: None
       Part No SW: 2K5 959 701 A    HW: 2K5 959 701 A
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2144  
       Coding: 0135730
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 323E13942827C6A7EBD-8066
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
       Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
       Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 314    3501  
       Revision: 00H22000    
       Shop #: WSC 46612 001 1048576
       VCID: 392C24B8F55135FF2A7-806C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: None
       Part No SW: 2K5 959 702 A    HW: 2K5 959 702 A
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2144  
       Coding: 0135730
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 33301690D73DCFAFE0B-8066
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels: 5G0-035-MIB-STD2.clb
       Part No SW: 5C0 035 680 E    HW: 5C0 035 680 E
       Component: MU-S-ND-ER    H31 0359  
       Serial number: VWZAZ2T5016940
       Coding: 063307013C00000011111101008808001F0100C600200100CF
       Shop #: WSC 35110 790 50316
       ASAM Dataset: EV_MUStd4CTSAT 001022
       ROD: EV_MUStd4CTSAT_SK25.rod
       VCID: 2310E6D06B5D5F2F10B-8076
    
       Data medium: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3G0 919 866 AQ    HW: -----------
       Component: ECE1 2017  --- 0730 
       Serial number: --------------------
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840)       Labels: 1K0-907-534.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 534     HW: 7N0 907 530 AN
       Component: Batt.regelung H56 1682  
       Serial number: 081216F1002876
       Coding: 030F7873
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 71BCDC98E1A1BDBFD27-8024
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 2K0 915 181     HW: 2K0 915 181 
       Component: J367-BDMConti  H03 1050 
       Serial number: 75410603001701093018
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:10, VBatt start/end: 12.1V/12.1V)-----------
    Last edited by jasons6930; 05-06-2017 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #17
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    Gary: As usual, your post raises some very interesting questions! I'm not sure about the details of the system for dimming control in your particular car, but I can describe my findings for how lamp dimming seems to work on VW cars that use Leuchte channels - I suspect that the fundamentals are the same, regardless of vehicle.
    Don, that's some impressive analysis work you've done there so kudos to you for doing that

    On the PQ35 platform cars there doesn't appear to be as much granular control over dimming of bulbs as there is on the MQB platform cars. I've found the configuration values for dimming of all the bulbs on the PQ35 platform car with exception of the license plate bulbs. The other bulbs can be dimmed by adjusting certain EEPROM memory cell byte values but I have yet to locate/confirm the memory cells that store the configuration for the license plates. While VCDS has available coding values for cold diagnosis and PWM for the license plate bulbs on the PQ35 BCMs, there is no setting that I can find for the dimming control of them so that would need to be done with EEPROM memory cell editing. I thought the license plate bulb configuration was stored under addresses 1963-1965 but I'm not so sure that is the case for my particular BCM. I will need to do some further (careful) research and analysis to try and confirm or deny this.

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  12. #18
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasons6930 View Post
    Ok here is the scan, which shows no faults logged.

    However, this time, I tried the lamp in the passenger side, but i will admit, that when i tried an LED before that threw up faults, it was a different colour (amber) and was on the drivers side, but was exactly the same make and model.

    No coding or changes were made with settings and are left as factory default.

    If anyone has any suggestions as to how to make them energise properly from start up (dimmed) it would be appreciated.

    Or, if anyone would like me to try some changes in VCDS, i'm happy to do that, although nothing too tech please!
    I think the only real solution is to make the necessary configuration adjustments by switching off both cold and warm diagnosis on the bulbs, and changing the bulb type configuration bit value to be for a non-incandescent bulb which I believe turns off PWM and may well be what is causing your problem. However, as previously said, there is nothing you can do in VCDS to sort out your problem unfortunately and you can only make such configuration changes by editing memory cell values in the EEPROM of the BCM.

    Other than doing that, you are in minefield territory of trial and error along with potentially wasted money until you can find some CAN Bus LEDs with built in load resistors that do actually work acceptably with your particular vehicle. The newer BCMs unfortunately seem to be far more sensitive and picky about LED bulbs being fitted to an circuit that is configured for incandescent bulbs than the older BCMs used to be.

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  14. #19
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    Ill try the cold and warm diagnostic settings tomorrow and report back.

    TBH, i don't mind spending a few quid in the name of research, especially if i can get a result without having to get into complicated and hazardous hard coding


  15. #20
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasons6930 View Post
    Ill try the cold and warm diagnostic settings tomorrow and report back.
    I thought it was the rear position / brake light bulb you are trying to use LED bulbs for(?) If so then I think you will be out of luck unfortunately because you have a PQ35 M+ (5K0937086AA) BCM in your Caddy which looking at your long coding value appears to use predefined lighting schemes that has Byte 18 masked with a value of "00". This means that you will have no ability to switch off cold diagnosis for the individual lighting circuits (other than for the license plate circuit) using VCDS. Please post up a screenshot of the Long Coding Helper window for Byte 18 of your BCM for clarification.

    This is the Byte 18 (highlighted in red) in the long coding value of your BCM...
    Code:
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 937 086 AA    HW: 5K0 937 086 AA
       Component: BCM PQ35 M+   122 0184  
       Revision: BD122001    
       Coding: 491A58F88025E16A088800809100896C037D000862208760E484C7000041
       Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
       VCID: 73B0D6909BBD8FAF20B-8026

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