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Thread: Passat B5 starts and idles but no throttle until warm

  1. #121
    Verified VCDS User
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    Jan 2017
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    Good morning all. I wanted to give an update and once again say thank you for all your help.

    You know you are dense as a brick right? Respectfully stated in the most loving way said possible!
    Also in the spirit of decreasing my density from a brick to say, something more like a 2x4, I have a few questions that I'd appreciate some answers to.

    Don't worry man we will learn you.........
    And Jack has generously offered to "learn" me.

    So, I acquired a new (used) camshaft hub, and no surprise (but definitely a relief) it solved the problem.
    Just for the record, this is what the keyway is supposed to look like:

    The car starts and runs perfectly and the manual transmission makes it a helluva lot more fun and peppy. It's amazing what a few degrees of timing will do.

    So the big question is- "How did the key on my camshaft hub get so damaged without any other signs or known history of catastrophic engine event?"
    It has been suggested that a "loose" bolt could cause it but it seems like there would be other signs of damage to the hub and if it were really loose it would be pretty obvious.

    The reason you see the fold in the metal is not the old key or it is due to the mechanical failure say for example a valve hitting a piston and the shear forces of the taper moving the fit as you see in your pictures you posted.
    Jack's suggestion of a sudden mechanical failure, and the subsequent shear forces seems most plausible and consistent with the condition of the hub. The only problem is there is no observable or historical evidence of that kind of failure. The engine ran perfectly before the swap and the timing belt/bsm delete work. The previous owner religiously had all their work (including routine oil changes) done at the VW dealership and I've scoured all those past records with no evidence of major engine work. There was a timing belt done at 72,000 miles but normally that wouldn't entail messing with the camshaft hub.

    The only other possibility, at the risk of sounding paranoid, is something that Jack brought up a few posts back (#112):

    Be advised you may be the victim of a sociopathic mechanical.

    This is when a tech is good at what he does and leaves a bomb for the next guy.
    This happens when he plots the correct quadrants to set the hub by anything but the actual timing marks but it is timed right on the cam and only for him.
    It insures that someone like yourself gets all fucked up and because you dont know your basis.
    This would certainly be consistent and in character with the asshole that worked on the engine. It's hard for me to fathom that kind of pathos but if his aim was simply to cause suffering he certainly achieved that.

    I would love to hear if anyone has seen this kind of camshaft hub damage before and/or other suggestions about how this may occur.

    Also, I'm curious about the effect of engine temp on timing. The way that throttle response and timing shifted when the car warmed up was definitely a curveball. Is there some program in the ECU that overrides or compensates for wildly off timing that kicks in at a certain temperature?

    In some other forums it was mentioned that when the timing is really off the Torsion Value defaults to 0.0 (which is what I observed). Is this true?

    One special thanks to Jack who in post 19 said:

    Timing...........Timing .........anyone ........Timing!
    I guess in this case checking timing goes much deeper than just proper alignment of the belt.
    Thanks for humoring my density.

  2. Likes Uwe, jyoung8607, Jetta ,97, D-Dub liked this post
  3. #122
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    1001 State Route 17K Montgomery New York 12549
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    You are now a "mushy healthy brain" and no longer a "brick"!

    Thank you for the follow up and learning the value of the JPPSG for FOD!

    Never doubt the helps us you!

    JPPSG for the next guy here......

    Post 11

    NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 10-09-2017 at 03:25 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP! <<<<<CLICK HERE! or ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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