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Thread: Passat B5 starts and idles but no throttle until warm

  1. #41
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    This is a great movie

  2. #42
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Do you really think that someone is gonna go through the trouble & expense of getting a CARB or EPA certificate for this?

    -Uwe-

    I do because if a tuner like Neuspeed can take the time to go get a CARB certificate, than why can't these guys?

    Actually Uwe it isn't all that expensive to have a car reviewed by CARB or the EPA for an approved alteration & if the car already had a COC and they the "supposed tuners" could show where they made the alleged improvements.

    In this case the absence of a COC or CARB certificate or application to show further intent to get certified I have to disagree .........oh that is absence of evidence to preform the lawful duties to enter a regulated industry & if you already sold the product for public use and profit or are we arguing the alleged tuner is of significant ignorance?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,
    This is a great movie
    Indeed it's a great film..........
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  3. #43
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    ^+1, but in this case if he just nixed out trans. I don't know if it's just that simple

  4. #44
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    ^+1, but in this case if he just nixed out trans. I don't know if it's just that simple

    Did someone say "case"? or "Use Case"

    Let me follow up to this with statement.

    I am not against anyone bettering themselves or doing an improvement/conversion project that is viable to them......I just prefer a process of quality is adhered to for doing things correctly & as they can be when playing cobb job.

    That said what I have aforementioned here is about a "process", not the subject of whether some half ass tuner does or doesn't break a law, however, it is factual they are in violation Marin.

    We follow a process with everything here for example an auto-scan to commence with using the forum or login to a controller with VCDS, otherwise the controller gives you a big fat Negative Response.

    Ones or zeros for Readiness etc etc..

    FOD and failure to respect the RTFB / JPPSG process or in this case "industry standards", is what gets most in trouble and here it may just be the process of shitty workmanship who knows. but all of this is part of a "process".

    So far this thread is a textbook example of a failed process and what not to do when engaging a repair process to modify the original use case of operation.

    WHAT FAIL you get an F.............

    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  5. #45
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    I shall never use the word CASE again

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  7. #46
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I shall never use the word CASE again
    "USE CASE"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
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  8. #47
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    maybe we can get this back on topic -

    Some tuners use a Euro 2.0 8V PD engine software version for the manual swap BHW. We'll call this Euro motor code "BXW." BXW came with a manual, hence the ECU supports the manual soft coding.

    Some tuners us a BEW software version for the manual swap BHW. BEW also came with a manual, is a lot easier to fund over here. Trouble is that the BEW has a lot more differences between it and the BHW compared to BXW/BHW. In a way the modified BXW software version which gets bench flashed onto the stock ECU is a more technically correct solution.

    We may have idle issues as a result of the improper base software version being used. I know for a fact that BEW and BHW use very different idle control characteristics.

    Of course that doesn't jive with the crappy starting when using the stock Immo off AT BHW ECU. But then again, there are a few different software versions for BHW. Pre glow plug recall vs post and there were minor tweaks to improve starting and reduce smoke at startup. We may have some mechanical deficiencies coupled with the wrong 'stock' software version that are making things harder to diagnose.

    So that brings us to the 'take stuff apart and see what changes' troubleshooting plan (instead of just requesting that the mystery Tuner of OZ behind the curtain chip-fix the car).

    What happens when you unplug the lambda sensor? Car should start just fine, but maybe have an elevated idle based on my experience.

    How 'bout unplugging the MAF or the EGR or the V157?

    Did a cam get replaced in this adventure? Did the injector rocker preload get adjusted after?

    Did I see 13* of duration at idle in one of those posed scans? That's over 2x the duration of what healthy injectors should need to idle a car. This may be indicative of injectors that are really worn out. Since idle is closed loop, ECU will bump duration until the idle speed is correct. If that happens to be right at the MAF based torque limitation, then you don't get much of a throttle pedal. As the engine warms up, IQ drops, and you'll have some space between idle torque and smoke limitation torque for a throttle. So maybe the injectors are just torched. That's an expensive guess, but this kinda sounds like an expensive Passat by now.

  9. #48
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    maybe we can get this back on topic -
    Yeah agreed maybe we could actually know WTF we are talking about before stating engine codes because a BXW is gas and for a 1.4 "Seat" IDK call me crazy.... Sorry just being an asshole now go fix your post and TY for trying to help the dude....

    Some tuners use a Euro 2.0 8V PD engine software version for the manual swap BHW. We'll call this Euro motor code "BXW." BXW came with a manual, hence the ECU supports the manual soft coding.

    Some tuners us a BEW software version for the manual swap BHW. BEW also came with a manual, is a lot easier to fund over here. Trouble is that the BEW has a lot more differences between it and the BHW compared to BXW/BHW. In a way the modified BXW software version which gets bench flashed onto the stock ECU is a more technically correct solution.

    We may have idle issues as a result of the improper base software version being used. I know for a fact that BEW and BHW use very different idle control characteristics.

    Of course that doesn't jive with the crappy starting when using the stock Immo off AT BHW ECU. But then again, there are a few different software versions for BHW. Pre glow plug recall vs post and there were minor tweaks to improve starting and reduce smoke at startup. We may have some mechanical deficiencies coupled with the wrong 'stock' software version that are making things harder to diagnose.

    So that brings us to the 'take stuff apart and see what changes' troubleshooting plan (instead of just requesting that the mystery Tuner of OZ behind the curtain chip-fix the car).

    What happens when you unplug the lambda sensor? Car should start just fine, but maybe have an elevated idle based on my experience.

    How 'bout unplugging the MAF or the EGR or the V157?

    Did a cam get replaced in this adventure? Did the injector rocker preload get adjusted after?

    Did I see 13* of duration at idle in one of those posed scans? That's over 2x the duration of what healthy injectors should need to idle a car. This may be indicative of injectors that are really worn out. Since idle is closed loop, ECU will bump duration until the idle speed is correct. If that happens to be right at the MAF based torque limitation, then you don't get much of a throttle pedal. As the engine warms up, IQ drops, and you'll have some space between idle torque and smoke limitation torque for a throttle. So maybe the injectors are just torched. That's an expensive guess, but this kinda sounds like an expensive Passat by now.
    I still think there are benefits to following the JPPSG!

    NostraJack "Ass" Has Spoken!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
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  10. #49
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    Jack -

    You misread and replied in haste.

    I said "we'll call this motor BXW". That's far different that saying "this IS the BXW motor". This is "a rose by any other name" sort of thing.

    Hopefully OP won't discredit my post based on your comment that I don't know WTF I'm talking about.

  11. #50
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I didn't misread anything, however, you are indeed mixing and referencing vag or other engine codes in your post of explanation how it reads to me and any tech.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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