2005 MK4 Jetta 2.0 BBW creeping lean condition

   #1  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
Hello guys and gals, this is my first of many posts. I've been using a previous employer's VCDS on and off for a little over a year but not for anything too deep. A little back story:

I purchased a 2005 MK4 Jetta 2.0 BBW with 69,xxx miles last August for $3,000. Car was in excellent shape and it seemed like a pretty sweet deal. The CEL was on and I pulled a p0171 thinking it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The previous owner bought a new OEM MAF to correct the issue but to no avail. I noticed the intake boot wasn't secured properly with the factory clamp so I positioned and checked everything to ensure I would get a sealed condition while I smoked the intake. After finding a small crack in the plastic oil dipstick housing, I ordered a new oem replacement from WorldPAC. After it arrived I cleared the codes and took her for a drive. After 3-25 mile highway trips at 55ish (I live in NYC so this is incredibly hard to accomplish) I was able to complete almost every monitor except EVAP and Secondary Air. As I came back to the shop I noticed my Long Term Fuel Trim had creeped back up around +10. As I attempted to force the monitors I completed EVAP but Secondary Air failed to execute and the CEL came on. I cleared the codes and took her back out for another highway drive and carefully watched the Short Term and Long Term trickle up after I hit 50mph. Air Fuel sensors/ o2s appeared to function normally. Something else I noticed but it could be completely normal as this is my first VAG product, the Secondary Air pump will run from start up but not every ignition, even on a cold start. It also runs when the car is hot during random driving conditions. Is this normal? Could my creeping lean and random SA operation be PCM related?

Long story short I bought my own VCDS and I'm going to get to the bottom of this. Below is the auto scan:

Code:
 Sunday,11,June,2017,20:40:13:55960
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 17.1.3.0 (x64)  HEX-NET CB: 0.4341.4
Data version: 20170320 DS267.7
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 3VWSA69M55M022415   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 9M (9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76
 
VIN: 3VWSA69M55M022415   Mileage: 125630km-78062miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-BBW.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 RJ
   Component: 2.0l R4/2V      G   6379  
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 77BE337E5717DCF9D8-5184
   3VWSA69M55M022415     VWZ7Z0D0297427

2 Faults Found:
16555 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 
            P0171 - 35-10 - System Too Lean - Intermittent
16485 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
            P0101 - 35-00 - Implausible Signal
Readiness: 0000 1000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01M-927-733.lbl
   Part No: 01M 927 733 MT
   Component: AG4 Getriebe 01M    5078  
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 0E50769A488DFD316B-0964

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
   Component: ABS FRONT MK60      0101  
   Coding: 0004097
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3326C76E53EFF0D924-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003  
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 271E233EC7378C7988-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J5 920 906 K
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V57  
   Coding: 15232
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 3522F9760D9BEEE90A-5160
   3VWSA69M55M022415     VWZ7Z0D0297427

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 70AC086232798BC119-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 373EF37E17971CF918-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  

1 Fault Found:
01179 - Incorrect Key Programming 
            35-00 -  - 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 3B7 035 180 G
   Component: RADIO 3CP          0007  
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 24043432B6016761AD-5160

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna 
            36-00 - Open Circuit

End----------(Elapsed Time: 07:35, VBatt start/end: 13.8V/13.7V)-----------

All monitors were complete except for Secondary Air which had failed at the time of the Auto Scan.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I no longer work as an automotive technician for my day job (I work on trains now) but I periodically have access to a lift and various other shop equipment. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and if I can help anyone else out with my experience please don't hesitate to ask!

-Wes
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #2  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Is the MAF the correct part # and genuine for the BBW?

Are there any false air leaks?

What is the status of the ( N80 ) EVAP solenoid mechanically for hold?
 
   #3  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
I'm about to take a quick trip to Jersey so I'll hook up my laptop and check the N80 status and post back with data and MAF part #
 
   #5  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
Okay so I gather that the N80 is the EVAP purge valve pulling hydrocarbons from the charcoal canister into the intake manifold correct? If my EVAP monitor has ran and passed wouldn't that mean the purge valve was able to command and seal properly?
 
   #6  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Okay so I gather that the N80 is the EVAP purge valve pulling hydrocarbons from the charcoal canister into the intake manifold correct?

YES




If my EVAP monitor has ran and passed wouldn't that mean the purge valve was able to command and seal properly?


NO................
 
   #7  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
To see for yourself run an EVAP test of N80 with gas cap removed and it will pass wide open every time.

That is why crimp tests for hold are required because a sticking open N80 will still often pass an 070 test.
 
   #8  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
Okay thank you for the info. The part number on the MAF looks like it's applicable for the 2.0BBW. It's a Borsehung B13664.

How would I got about commanding my N80 with VCDS, is that possible? Should I manually pull a vacuum and actuate it to see that it opens and closes properly?

What is the crimp test? Blocking off the purge line into the manifold and monitoring the fuel trim?
 
Last edited:
   #9  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
How would I got about commanding my N80 with VCDS, is that possible? Should I manually pull a vacuum and actuate it to see that it opens and closes properly?

YES & YES

How would I got about commanding my N80 with VCDS, is that possible? Should I manually pull a vacuum and actuate it to see that it opens and closes properly? What is the crimp test? Blocking off the purge line into the manifold and monitoring the fuel trim?

Hook up VCDS and a mighty vac tester to the N80 on one side and then pull a vacuum and it should hold than switch the outputs to initiate in VCDS to watch it release. 0x01-03.

Now hook up inverse and do it from the other side of N80 & same work procedure.

Crimps can be done on both sides to measure a deviation when releasing the N80 by the use of VCDS outputs or directly with a trigger to the N80.

This test verifies the N80 is not the leak itself......
 
   #10  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
Also you have 3 oxygen sensors usually the center one on top of the catalytic converter is the one that controls fuel trim. But make sure you don't have any maf errors which could be caused by a bad cam correlation reading
 
   #11  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
Check for exhaust leaks usually the flex. Check for cam correlation should be mvb 93. Usually BBW they don't set the cam timing properly. Also oil pressure dictates cam correlation. Check cam correlation while the engine is cold and after you've been on the freeway about 10 miles check it again actual vs specified.
 
   #12  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
OP

Also verify that there is sufficient fuel flow and volume by checking the filter that likes to plug up in the tank of these BBW cars.

I am not liking what you posted for a MAF though...........put a genuine one in.
 
   #13  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
Check for exhaust leaks usually the flex. Check for cam correlation should be mvb 93. Usually BBW they don't set the cam timing properly. Also oil pressure dictates cam correlation. Check cam correlation while the engine is cold and after you've been on the freeway about 10 miles check it again actual vs specified.

The timing belt has never been replaced on this car. Last I checked it was in good shape. Are they known to jump a tooth?
 
   #14  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
OP

Also verify that there is sufficient fuel flow and volume by checking the filter that likes to plug up in the tank of these BBW cars.

I am not liking what you posted for a MAF though...........put a genuine one in.

Should I grab a Bosch MAF? I'll see about grabbing a filter. I need to grab a few tools to start checking fuel pressure and pull vacuum.

Also, is it wise to grab a Bentley manual for my Jetta? Are they worth the price?
 
   #15  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
I think a real Bosch MAF is a good idea or genuine from dealer.........lots of china garbage clones out there.

Make sure this part #06A-906-461T

Erwin and print to PDF after buying a day is the cheapest route for RTFB.
 
   #16  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
Timing belt is a 60000 mile service on that car. You should change it if it's never been replaced
 
   #17  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
No they're not known to jump they're known to be off because there is no timing mark on the cam gear you have to remove the valve cover and install some kind of a tool or make your own Gadget and loosen the cam sprocket. But lots of times people are just marking the cam gear and putting the belt back on it might be fine but you must check cam correlation on MVB 93 to verify
 
   #18  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
No they're not known to jump they're known to be off because there is no timing mark on the cam gear you have to remove the valve cover and install some kind of a tool or make your own Gadget and loosen the cam sprocket. But lots of times people are just marking the cam gear and putting the belt back on it might be fine but you must check cam correlation on MVB 93 to verify

Yes I've heard many horror stories dealing with timing on the BBW. As far as I know there's nothing timing related wrong with the car, but I'll double check cam and crank correlation again.
 
   #19  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
you must check cam correlation on MVB 93 to verify

What's MVB 93?

*update* Was on phone and couldn't mouse over to determine is was Measuring Value Block.
 
Last edited:
   #20  

Green's Garage

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
12
Location
Miami, Florida
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=310052
I think a real Bosch MAF is a good idea or genuine from dealer.........lots of china garbage clones out there.

Make sure this part #06A-906-461T

Erwin and print to PDF after buying a day is the cheapest route for RTFB.

Okay I'll look up that part number. What's RTFB?

*update* Was on phone and couldn't mouse over to determine is was Read The Fine Book lol
 
Last edited:
Back
Top