7859 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor, replaced throttle Body & wiring

   #1  

Alan_Harrington

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Hi everyone,

I looked at an Audi A4 B8 2008 2,0 TDI Diesel during the week which had the EML light on. The log from the ECM is attached. I had a throttle body from the same type of car and engine so I changed them but the DTC remains. The throttle which is originally in the car is made by Continental and the replacement is made by Siemens. It appears one of the part numbers (starting with 03L) has been covered or not printed on the throttle body on the car, the date also is 08.06.2015 suggesting it has also been replaced in the past. I ran three new wires of the 5 which go to the throttle body (2 wires for the dc motor for the flap). Problem still there. I have also taken logs of the adv measuring blocks after trying something different.

I then looked at the adv measuring blocks of another Audi with the same engine, the value for throttle valve position sensor was ~2200 mV at idle compared to the ~4300 mV I'm getting on the car with the DTC. When I replaced the wire for the signal off the throttle I measured what voltage was on the old wire to see if it was shorting with the 12V however it was 0V. I also checked the voltage on the signal wire and it is the same as what the ECM is measuring

I can only hope the only solution is to get the identical replacement part as there must be an internal fault in the sensor.

Any suggestions ?


Logs with two different throttle Bodies:


VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows Vista x86
VCDS Version: 17.1.2.1
Data version: 20170131 DS267.1
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8KX9A056345 License Plate: A4 CLON BLACK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (03L 906 022 JM)

12:03:21
IDE00083 Throttle valve position (absolute) 83.9 %
ENG109419 Throttle valve activation 0.00 %
ENG109415 Throttle valve feedback 0.13 %
ENG109422 Throttle valve offset closed -0.37 %
ENG109423 Throttle valve offset open 0.37 %
ENG109425 Throttle valve output stage 5.82 %
ENG109427 Throttle valve position sensor 4214.8 mV
Saturday,11,February,2017,15:03:03:28282
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows Vista x86
VCDS Version: 17.1.2.1
Data version: 20170131 DS267.1
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8KX9A056345 License Plate: A4 CLON BLACK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (03L 906 022 JM)

15:02:57
IDE00083 Throttle valve position (absolute) 84.3 %
ENG109419 Throttle valve activation 0.00 %
ENG109415 Throttle valve feedback 0.16 %
ENG109422 Throttle valve offset closed -0.74 %
ENG109423 Throttle valve offset open 0.74 %
ENG109425 Throttle valve output stage 14.53 %
ENG109427 Throttle valve position sensor 4232.6 mV


Log off a similar car with no faults
:

Saturday,11,February,2017,15:06:36:28282
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows Vista x86
VCDS Version: 17.1.2.1
Data version: 20170131 DS267.1
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8K7BA110254 License Plate: A4



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (03L 906 022 NN)

15:06:31
IDE00083 Throttle valve position (absolute) 42.7 %
ENG109419 Throttle valve activation 56.76 %
ENG109415 Throttle valve feedback 49.43 %
ENG109422 Throttle valve offset closed -0.77 %
ENG109423 Throttle valve offset open 0.77 %
ENG109425 Throttle valve output stage 32.15 %
ENG109427 Throttle valve position sensor 2099.4 mV



Last Auto-Scan:
Code:
Saturday,11,February,2017,17:30:49:28282
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows Vista x86
VCDS Version: 17.1.2.1
Data version: 20170131 DS267.1
[url]www.Ross-Tech.com[/url]


VIN: WAUZZZ8KX9A056345   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 8K (8T0)
Scan: 01 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 42 46 47 52 53 56 62 72

VIN: WAUZZZ8KX9A056345   Mileage: 211640km-131506miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CAGA)       Labels: 03L-906-022-CAG.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 022 JM    HW: 03L 906 022 B
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC   H01 3173  
   Revision: 11H01---    
   Coding: 0104002C18072018
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03L906022JM A01005
   ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03L906022B.rod
   VCID: 79F98650F8B72889A5-802C

1 Fault Found:
7859 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
          P2015 00 [039] - Implausible Signal
          Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 211641 km
                    Date: 2017.02.11
                    Time: 17:27:05

                    Engine speed: 836.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 22.4 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 68 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 22 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.120 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Crankshaft speed (RPM): 836.0 /min
                    Vehicle speed: 0.00 km/h
                    Accelerator position: 0.00 %
                    V Sw Vlv r Drft Opn mp: 11.98 %
                    V Sw Vlv r Drft Clsd mp: -1.81 %
                    V Sw Vlv u Raw: 319.4 mV
                    V Sw Vlv st Mon-Bit 0: 00000000 
                    V Sw Vlv st Mon-Bit 16: 00000000 
                    V Sw Vlv st Mon-Bit 24: 00000000 
                    V Sw Vlv st Mon-Bit 8: 00000000 

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 1 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 8K0-907-379-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 379 AQ    HW: 8K0 907 379 AQ
   Component: ESP8 front    H03 0210  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 160500
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 081FF394BB5D4101AA-805C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels: 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 BC    HW: 8K0 907 064 C
   Component: BCM2 1.1      H70 0252  
   Revision: 00002001    
   Coding: 031100
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 72EBB17CADC15BD1E4-8026

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 959 754 D    HW: 8T0 959 754 D
   Component: FBSAUDIB8 IDG  H37 0060 
   Serial number: 0508000027298001    

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 905 852 D    HW: 8K0 905 852 D
   Component: ELVAUDIB8  H35 0039 
   Serial number: 0208000025683013    

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 8T2 820 043 S    HW: 8T2 820 043 S
   Component: KLIMA 3 ZONEN H06 0140  
   Revision: D0000000    Serial number: 0115.06.080159
   Coding: 34040000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 428B21BCDDE1AB51B4-8016

2 Faults Found:
00457 - Control Module for Network (J519) 
            013 - Check DTC Memory
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101101
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 207
                    Mileage: 211641 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.02.11
                    Time: 17:27:04

00256 - A/C Pressure/Temperature Sensor (G395) 
            008 - Implausible Signal
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101101
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 207
                    Mileage: 211641 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.02.11
                    Time: 17:27:04


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 8K0-907-063.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 063 E    HW: 8K0 907 063 
   Component: BCM1 1.0      H22 0380  
   Revision: 01022001    Serial number: 00000000066113
   Coding: 690040B10034A7000001000000005F5F001D020800000141000000
   Shop #: WSC 00294 210 88150
   VCID: 31697E70684720C95D-8064

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K2 955 119     HW: 8T2 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 180608  H05 0060 
   Serial number: SWFBIE 0000065      
   Coding: 00FD11

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 955 559     HW: 8K0 955 559   Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
   Component: RLS  H04 0003 
   Serial number: 10162374            
   Coding: 025028

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 941 531 AS    HW: 8K0 941 531 AS
   Component: E1 - LDS  H03 0031 
   Serial number: 00000000001503110505

2 Faults Found:
00256 - A/C Pressure/Temperature Sensor (G395) 
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 207
                    Mileage: 211641 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.02.11
                    Time: 17:27:00

01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238) 
            014 - Defective
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101110
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 207
                    Mileage: 211641 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.02.11
                    Time: 17:27:00


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels: 8K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 655 B    HW: 8K0 959 655 B
   Component: AirbagVW-AU10 H26 0410  
   Serial number: 0038JD16SGDL  
   Coding: 30363434363030303030554A3052384B3053
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010 A02007
   ROD: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010_A02.rod
   VCID: 3C775F44B705DDA1FE-8068

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6334MSME32036E203

   Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6344MSME3B032A1AE

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6352QSME7017273BF

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6362QSME73234B23D

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 63732SME7D23776DE

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 63832SME6A34210F+

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels: 8K0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 953 568 F    HW: 8K0 953 568 F
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H12 0013  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 90304HFP0008V 
   Coding: 000012
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3D715240A41FD4A9C9-8068

   Component: E221 - MFL  H02 0003 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 8T0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 920 980 B    HW: 8K0 920 980 B
   Component: KOMBIINSTR.   H16 0221  
   Revision: 00200000    Serial number: 995650V68     
   Coding: 2F05080002002600010000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 123 12345
   VCID: 31697E70684720C95D-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 8T0-907-468.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 468 H    HW: 8T0 907 468 H
   Component: GW-BEM 5CAN   H06 0091  
   Revision: GB102039    Serial number: 3900G08612814D
   Coding: 000303
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 46833DACF1C9977198-8012

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 915 181 B    HW: 8K0 915 181 B
   Component: J367-BDM  H04 0150 
   Serial number: 18026355040608      

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels: 8K0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 793 C    HW: 8K0 959 793 A
   Component: TSG FA        H10 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007341027 
   Coding: 011002204001410001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 408F2BB4D3EDB941A2-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels: 8K0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 BC    HW: 8K0 907 064 C
   Component: BCM2 1.1      H70 0252  
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0112114819    
   Coding: 011B0622003904400020010000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00294 210 88150
   VCID: 72EBB17CADC15BD1E4-8026

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8K0 951 177 
   Component: DWA-Sensor  H02 0040 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H03 1301 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System (J525)       Labels: 8T0-035-223-ASC.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 035 223 AB    HW: 8T0 035 223 
   Component: DSP STD       H07 0220  
   Revision: S1900000    
   Coding: 0203010101
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 6ED3A50CB9F97F3100-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels: 8K0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 792 C    HW: 8K0 959 792 A
   Component: TSG BF        H10 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007374815 
   Coding: 011002204001410001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3F8D2848AE13C6B9DB-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (J540)       Labels: 8K0-907-801-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 801 E    HW: 8K0 907 801 E
   Component: EPB Audi B8   H05 0060  
   Revision: 00000003    Serial number: 00000000158852
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 31697E70684720C95D-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels: 8Tx-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 8T2 035 186 C    HW: 8T2 035 186 C
   Component: Concert3      H02 0210  
   Revision: 00000004    Serial number: AUZ5Z6H1080895
   Coding: 0502008001010D000359070000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 387F43548B3DF1811A-806C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 919 603 A    HW: 8T0 919 603 A
   Component: Display  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left (J388)       Labels: 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795 A    HW: 8K0 959 795 A
   Component: TSG HL        H06 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000100076759 
   Coding: 010002204001210001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 408F2BB4D3EDB941A2-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right (J389)       Labels: 8K0-959-794.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 794 A    HW: 8K0 959 795 A
   Component: TSG HR        H06 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000100087983 
   Coding: 010002204001210001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3F8D2848AE13C6B9DB-806A

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:53)--------------------------
 
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   #2  

Alan_Harrington

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I meant to add I also tried carrying out a throttle body adapdation on each body but made no difference
 
   #3  

MartinsX

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Leave the TB alone, everything is ok with it :)

Problem is with intake manifold flap (swirl flap). Flap mechanism in manifold upper part is worn and flap motor drives it outside allowed range, position sensor detects it and fault is stored.
Official solution is to replace complete upper part of intake manifold with flaps and motor (not a very cheap part). I've just replaced couple of those last month, part costed approx 400eur at our local dealer.
 
   #5  

MartinsX

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There is only one thing people have to remember - if this or similar limiter is installed, and flap mechanism is very badly worn, limiter will limit range where lever moves (no fault code stored), but it will not keep flaps fixed tightly at end position, when they are not moved. This means, flaps may vibrate when air flow passes and may crack and some debris may get into cylinders causing serious mechanical damage...
For 2,0 CR TDI this is just theoretical thoughts. Haven't seen broken flaps myself. But for 3,0 V6 CR TDI I have seen broken flaps and damaged valves/pistons several times.
If customer don't want repair this with complete new original intake manifold/flap/motor unit, I suggest to install limiter and remove flaps from manifold. Or program this feature off and remove flaps from manifold. Or disconnect lever arm and fix flaps tightly with spring as a quick temporary solution.
 
   #6  

rhinopower

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Mine has been perfect since fitting the limiting bracket.
 
   #7  

Alan_Harrington

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Thanks for the replies guys will give update :)
 
   #9  

vodonnell

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Would you have a photo or drawing of that fix Jack? regards Vinnie
 
   #10  

Jack@European_Parts

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I don't because I never documented since everyone watches the diesel geek video.

I have even just installed a roll/solid pin in the hole as a press fit & on the flapper side.
Additionally I have done this inside the unit getting the same result.

All you're doing is limiting the motion of the flap motor.

If I get time maybe I will take one apart and makes some photos.

A similar result can be had in 10 seconds with a very weak spring added to the arm & that the motor can move to create the seating resistance.
 
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   #12  

Alan_Harrington

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Thanks for the replies in the end I fixed this easily with that bracket had to do another lately as well, never thought of that Jack, actually easier than waiting on a bracket to arrive
 
   #13  

Jack@European_Parts

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Thanks for the replies in the end I fixed this easily with that bracket had to do another lately as well, never thought of that Jack, actually easier than waiting on a bracket to arrive
Cheaper too.......& with adjustability to calibrate.
 
   #14  

Jack@European_Parts

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I have to add to this post and advise, that if you retime the gear or intermediate gear preloaded to the stop position; beneath the cover on the servo side & "installed" in the car disconnecting "NOTHING" by taking the cover off to access............ there is no need to drill or add a dam thing!

You advance it a tooth and you are DONE!
 
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