99 Jetta TDI glow plug questions.

   #1  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
Question, 99 Jetta TDI, understanding glow plug sequence? This car is running well and you can delete EGR code as cleaned the coke out of it and
replace 1 vac line all is good. It has been a little grouchy in the morning around 32F, or 0C. Monitoring this on a DSO and VAG, I note 4 plugs come on for only 6 seconds grid Q6, to the cyclinders, then turns off. Once you crank and start Q6 ( the 4 cylinders) comes on and stays pulling 32 amps and dropping over time once started. I notice glow plug only comes on for 6 seconds, (DSO) then turns off. Can't view this on Vag as it takes more than 6 seconds to obtain address once key is on. I am used to Cummins, and International which will come on and stay on for around 10/20 seconds before commanding ready to start. 6 seconds seems short to me. I notice if I cycle the key now knowing it is only on for 6 seconds, I do this 3 times and it barks much easier. The car always starts I just feel the crank time is long, but maybe normal.

The 2nd question is?, this is a standard transmission and there are 3 glow plugs in the goose neck making a total of 7. There is no power amps or voltage on the 3 in the neck but they are actually run in 2 stages, depending I guess? These are ran from J360, J359 relays. My question is ??????????? My bently states these 2 relays are in the motor compartment and there are 2 relays a 53 and a 100 labels and I don't know if these are the 2 in question as there is no numbering around them on the relay frame. I can back probe T80/34 and T80/17 which excites these relays but maybe VAG or or VW does not target this system unless it is colder than what I am at. This would tell me if the relays are actually being commanded or not.

What is the strategy here? as would think the ECM would turn on one or both of these relays to heat up the water in the jacket. These are not I'm told used on the automatic trans as it creates enough load to warm, don't know. I see no codes illuding to them not funtioning, and have not tried to disconnect and create a code to see what happens, might go there.

Happy New Year to all

Larry

Code:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 6Q0 909 605 A
   Component: 09 AIRBAG VW5       0003  
   Coding: 12345
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 356A3BE40F47CCEA4D-4ACE

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx0-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 900 L
   Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V56   
   Coding: 07242
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 2B5E1D9CD9038A1A2B-5102

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
   Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0X2007197         
   IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0X2007197       

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 70E4CAF030A5A9C25E-5102

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
   Component: 61 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001  
   Coding: 04096
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 06088C282221977294-4ACE

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HL0002r  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r  

2 Faults Found:
01358 - Internal Central Locking Switch; Driver Side (E150) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00912 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Left (E40) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:24)--------------------------
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #2  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
31,618
Reaction score
22,589
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
ECU (and maybe ABS brakes, if equipped) are missing from your scan.

-Uwe-
 
   #3  

Jetta 97

Professional User
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
812
Reaction score
768
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=81680
Answer #1 ,
here is your solution, you have to turn ignition on /off when you chnage value to get new GP extended timing :
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=123304

Answer #2:
Those GP are for very cold weather to speed up coolant warming. They have nothing to do with engine start.

Now I have question for you,
Do you have long crank ( about 8-10 sec) when is car worm up to normal temperature 90C?
 
   #4  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,604
Reaction score
9,128
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Just because the glow light is out after 6 seconds doesn't mean that the glows are off!

RTFB SSP..........

What should be paid attention to here is cold start commencement in relation to FT & ECT + IAT.

After engine is immediately started running cold, you should run the commencement test log in VCDS by 0x01-03 start first test and then exit to 0x01-08-000 and log for 20 seconds the 10 fields....at idle.

Pay attention too it, it cost nothing.........post the data Larrymore!

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

Good Riddance 2016!
 
   #5  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
Answer #1 ,
here is your solution, you have to turn ignition on /off when you chnage value to get new GP extended timing :
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=123304

Answer #2:
Those GP are for very cold weather to speed up coolant warming. They have nothing to do with engine start.

Now I have question for you,
Do you have long crank ( about 8-10 sec) when is car worm up to normal temperature 90C?

Thanks for the info, will research all of it, yes get that the plugs in the coolant might not come on @ crank, would make sense was just trying to understand @ what point this happens as just trying to arm myself with enoug info to grasp what is the normal.

I don't have a long crank once warm, actually it probably barks from what I have seen on the DSO in less than a revolution, that is why I'm targeting Glow system as runs stellar other wise. This morning cycled the key 3 time, meaning I know they stay on from viewing DSO for 6 seconds and barked right off. Will go down and talk to Jack on his post, but thanks for the info.

Larry
 
   #6  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
Just because the glow light is out after 6 seconds doesn't mean that the glows are off!

RTFB SSP..........

What should be paid attention to here is cold start commencement in relation to FT & ECT + IAT.

After engine is immediately started running cold, you should run the commencement test log in VCDS by 0x01-03 start first test and then exit to 0x01-08-000 and log for 20 seconds the 10 fields....at idle.

Pay attention too it, it cost nothing.........post the data Larrymore!

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

Good Riddance 2016!

Thanks Jack, and as stated as viewing with DSO they are on longer than the light in the dash, it goes off after about 2 seconds but DSO shows it on for 6. Will go into the info you have posted and gain some esperience, hence why asking the questions just wanting to be in the know. As for the 2 relays 360, 359 my Bently shows a relay box that looks nothing like mine, okay maybe another Jokes Wagen, and until I research it further with your info still don't know if they are coming on, and if not don't know where they are. There are 2 relays mounted in a plastic box on the fire wall just behind the battery marked 100, and 53, don't know if these are the j359 and J360.

VCDS by 0x01-03 start first test and then exit to 0x01-08-000 and lo, Would thinks I can bring both these up in the one picture allowing me to view 3 fields, could be wrong here, IF SO, will be my first mistake in 2017, guess I better get used to it.



Have a great New year Larrymore.
 
   #7  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
ECU (and maybe ABS brakes, if equipped) are missing from your scan.

-Uwe-

UWE, yes has ABS, but why is it not posting, thought system scan would see all that needed to be seen, but then again thats what I get for thinking.

by the way Happy New year, enjoying the VAG and the support.

Larry
 
   #8  

PetrolDave

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,284
Reaction score
4,265
Location
South Molton, UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=1423
ECU (and maybe ABS brakes, if equipped) are missing from your scan.
Looks like an edited scan to me...

We really do need a FULL Auto-Scan...
 
   #9  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
31,618
Reaction score
22,589
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
Looks like an edited scan to me...
We really do need a FULL Auto-Scan...
I doubt it was intentional. I suspect he just didn't select the whole scan prior to copying & pasting it.

-Uwe-
 
   #10  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
I doubt it was intentional. I suspect he just didn't select the whole scan prior to copying & pasting it.

As stated EGR code is no longer there just the door issue.

Here is the other half, copied and pasted, for what ever reason glitched.

Code:
Tuesday,13,December,2016,04:20:08:01722
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 16.8.1.3 (x64)
Data version: 20160902 DS256
[url]www.Ross-Tech.com[/url]


Mileage: 384160km-238705mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76
 
   Mileage: 384160km-238705miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.lbl
   Part No: 038 906 012 BD
   Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G400SG  2507  
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 53AE657CA1F3F2DA43-4ACE

1 Fault Found:
19586 - EGR System 
            P3130 - 35-10 - Regulation Range Exceeded - Intermittent
Readiness: 0 1 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 907 379 P
   Component: ABS     20 IE CAN  0001  
   Coding: 03504
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 3E7824C83A710FB29C-4ACE

No fault code found.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #11  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
Another thing you should know is if you disconnect the engine coolant temperature sensor you'll be able to get it to come on much longer just for testing purposes
 
   #12  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,604
Reaction score
9,128
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
You have no faults for glows......

I would be willing to bet that timing or commencement is out!

Log the data and post the block 000 as I instructed.

Running cold at idle ..........
In VCDS 0x01-03 start first test then back out to 0x01-08-000 and log the fields all displayed for 10-20 seconds.

You could also have a slight fuel prime issue you are unaware of.
 
Last edited:
   #13  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
On the fuel line's do you still have one with the clear. At idle how much bubbles are in there.
 
   #14  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,604
Reaction score
9,128
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Just an FYI..........

A switch can be rigged to the ECT with a resistor, to force the glow period to stay on for the longest possible time and is a common thing done in very cold climates.

If this was my car I'd add a half a gallon of gasoline at fill fuel ups, to aid in winter cold starts in addition a shot of marvel mystery oil to the fuel
 
   #15  

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
Other than preventing it from gelling up Jack what is the pros and cons of adding gasoline. And what ratio
 
   #16  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,604
Reaction score
9,128
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Pro is........... it lights off cold and yeah stops the gel.
Not really any cons I can find........... because the fuel this thing was originally designed for was 49-55 Cetane and the pumps are a max here of 40 now being low sulfur.
It will actually run cleaner and in old diesels it was permissible to run up to 1 gallon per tank of gasoline in the manual.
 
   #17  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
Pro is........... it lights off cold and yeah stops the gel.
Not really any cons I can find........... because the fuel this thing was originally designed for was 49-55 Cetane and the pumps are a max here of 40 now being low sulfur.
It will actually run cleaner and in old diesels it was permissible to run up to 1 gallon per tank of gasoline in the manual.

Jack, have not went back in to play with the glow time, but this morning it was 13F here and initially all of my tests were @ 32F right at freezing. I noticed today the glow light came on on the dash for substantially longer time as obviously the ECM is seeing a block learn from the colder temps, JMO.

I do cycle it 2 times and it light right off. Yes will go back in and do a harder fix but have a good feel for it now. Good tip on the gasoline as just makes sense.

Gas is a diesel @ large quantities not suggested but we had a driver here @ work put 15 gallons of gas in our dodge cummins, a 35 gallon tank. Said it sounded strange and drove it like that for over 200 miles. Would not recommend it but refilled it and never had a problem with it although my guess is the HP pumps life was not enhanced one bit.

Thanks again for the input, happy new year.
Larry
 
   #18  

Danners74

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
125
Reaction score
83
Location
UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=273244
The glows are regulated by a number of factors. Under 9 celsius they are fired sequentially from what i can remember from my early course work. Possibly PWM'd until engine temp is reached to prevent diesel knock/clatter hence you are seeing themm switched. Also your fuel quality is an issue. Get a Millers Cetane booster if you can there? I used to run my MK3 Golf estate ....(rabbit to you) on vegetable oil mainly, 10 litres of diesel and millers.

Smelled divine!:)
 
   #19  

Larry Manton

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 19, 2016
Messages
554
Reaction score
297
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=112505
Sorry for not posting again here guys as car is working good, just needed to understand how it thinks. Notice that the colder it get mostly blow 32 F /0 celcius the light for the glow does come on for about 4 seconds, and if down around 12 F (the other day) it will come on longer, so ECM is seeing a matrix which does align with the temps.

I will note that in colder mornings I cycle the key a couple times just to give the system a fair chance, then crank on the 3rd time per say, and it lights right off after about after only a couple revolutions, which is pretty good. Did note on this car that it never could reach operating temps even on the road, so replaced the thermostat and now I have full heat, although the thermostat was never brought up in the glo issue. Did replace the battery as load tested marginal, but OKay, so put a new one in as have had the car 5 years and is a factory VW battery, don't know if it was from new, might be but time to say by by, as this winter is cold.

As far as timing, it is spot on using the TDI timing on vag, so that is not an issue. Did notice in bently that Glo system does not actually function till around 48F, could be wrong here but there about, maybe was 42.

Thanks to all for all the input.

Larry
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
Top