Audi BRD engine suspect injector fault

   #1  

Peajar

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Hi, I suspect I have faulty injector/s on my a4 b7 2.0tdi 170. I'm not getting any fault codes at all but the engine is misfiring and I have white smoke from the exhaust. It's not a head gasket, ticked that off the list already and it's not the EGR valve. My problem is, I can't have the injectors bench tested, it's just not possible. My only option is to replace at an astronomical price. I would feel a lot more confident if somehow I could get data from VCDS to confirm they need replacing. Is this possible?
 
   #2  

vagtuning

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Take a look am MWB 13,18,23 when problem is present.
 
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DrPeter

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Hi,

- MVBs like mentioned above are your best friend.

Also if you see a problem in any one or more cylinders, you could swap from a known good component to a suspect component's location and see if the readings follow the swap in the MVBs.

Hope that helps too,


drpeter
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Stop!.............White smoke indicates coolant in combustion process. :banghead:

You should check for a washed cylinder, PSI test the coolant system and cross check the compression leak down between cylinder's........

https://www.google.com/#q=diesel+head+gasket+coolant+leak+smokes+color

https://gobdp.com/blog/what-are-the-symptoms-of-a-blown-head-gasket/


BASICS guys..............JPPSG!



White Smoke

White smoke is produced when antifreeze and/or water leaks inside the engine cylinder, where the gasoline is being compressed and burned. The smoke is actually steam caused when this coolant gets burned up with the fuel. Any amount of coolant present in the cylinder will produce this white smoke, which will get exhausted out the tailpipe.
If it’s white smoke you are seeing, examine the radiator and overflow container to find out if you have the right amount of antifreeze. Then check your engine oil dipstick and the underside of the oil cap for signs of antifreeze contaminating your oil. Your oil will look like a chocolate milkshake if it’s got antifreeze mixed in with the oil.
If you see any evidence of antifreeze in your engine oil, DO NOT start the engine. Your car probably has a blown head gasket allowing the fluid to leak in, and you can cause serious (expensive!) engine damage by running the engine. The head gasket usually fails because of excessive heat and pressure when the engine overheats. You will need to repair the head gasket and determine/repair the cause of the initial engine overheating before you can drive this car.
If you are dealing with white smoke, don’t miss this video with invaluable information on your problem and how you can save thousands on this kind of repair.



Blue Smoke

Blue smoke is created when oil leaks into the engine cylinder where the gasoline is being compressed and burned. As with the coolant causing white smoke, any amount of oil in the cylinder will cause blue smoke from the exhaust.
There are several gaskets, seals, and O-rings that can fail and allow oil to get inside the engine cylinder. This kind of oil leak is fairly common in higher mileage cars just from the wear these parts have experienced.
Unlike white smoke, you can continue to drive a car with blue smoke without causing immediate damage to the engine. A common remedy is to put in heavier weight engine oil and a special oil additive that can help reduce the oil’s ability to leak into the cylinder.
Excessive oil in the cylinder will foul the spark plug and cause the engine to miss or “misfire.” If this occurs, you will have to clean or possibly replace this spark plug.



Black Smoke

Black smoke is produced by excessive fuel in the engine cylinder. If the car is letting too much gasoline into the cylinder, the engine can’t use it all as fuel fast enough, and the excess gasoline causes this black smoke as it heats and burns. Your car is said to be “running rich” and of course results in pretty bad fuel mileage.
Even though it is the scariest to see, black smoke is actually the least cause of alarm. But, before driving the car again, check the oil dipstick and cap (like I mentioned before with white smoke) to make sure the gasoline hasn’t contaminated your oil. If there is gasoline in the oil, the oil won’t change color but will be much thinner and more “watery” than it should be, and you should be able to detect a raw fuel odor. DO NOT start the engine if there is any indication of fuel in the oil or you can cause internal damage and possibly catch your engine on fire (yes, I learned that the hard way).
There are several parts that may have failed to allow the excess fuel in the engine cylinder. You may have a faulty fuel injector, a damaged fuel pump, or a carburetor problem. It can also be a malfunction in the car’s computer or a computer sensor. You will need to have the car repaired to correct the cause of the smoke and odor, poor fuel mileage,and sluggish engine performance, but as long as the fuel hasn’t leaked into your oil, you can still drive the car until you can get this done.
 
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   #5  

Peajar

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Thanks for all the replies, I honestly appreciate it at. As a novice trying to work things out for myself your experience is greatly appreciated.

I have read measuring blocks 13,18 and 23.

On 13 I read figures that bounce up and down at idle. They read between negative and positive values. To be honest I don't know what this means when I compare them to what they should read.

On 18 I read all 0.0 which means no fault detected?

On 23 I read all injectors are within tolerance 1,2 and 3 are 0.22ms consistently and 4 is 0.21ms or 0.22ms

On measuring block 1 my injection quantity is within tolerance for idle but doesn't increase dramatically to meet tolerances user load.

As for the white smoke, I'm of the understanding that white smoke on a Diesel engine such as mine means....

"WHITE SMOKE occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include

Faulty or damaged injectors
Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)"

Which is why I'm leaning towards an injector fault.

I've done a TK test and there is no compression gases in the cooling system.
 
   #7  

Peajar

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Will do! I've got the jppsg ready to go, just need time on a real computer
 
   #8  

Peajar

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Code:
Saturday,13,August,2016,12:16:28:01578
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 16.8.0.3 (x64)
Data version: 20160803 DS255
[url]www.Ross-Tech.com[/url]


VIN: WAUZZZ8E27A093154   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
          67 69 75 76 77
 
VIN: WAUZZZ8E27A093154   Mileage: 156150km-97027miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-018-BRD.clb
   Part No SW: 03G 906 018 AQ    HW: 03G 906 018 AQ
   Component: R4 2.0l PPD1.3 G    9971  
   Revision: --H23---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000172
   Shop #: WSC 00028 210 01865
   VCID: 74E79A5E17BD05E2B4-8020

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-910-517.clb
   Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 J    HW: 8E0 614 517 BH
   Component: ESP8 quattro    H06 0140  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0004405
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 2E534836B9116F3202-807A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 820 043 BJ
   Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   2833  
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 6ADB84261679C3121E-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 907 279 M
   Component: int. Lastmodul  ECE 0907  
   Coding: 10101
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 3C77727E2C6D8DA2BC-4B1A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8E0-959-655-94.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 959 655 G    HW: 8E0 959 655 G
   Component:    Airbag 9.41  H12 3730  
   Revision: 91H12373    Serial number: 0036M0G3EB0W  
   Coding: 0031612
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3B7571627A638A9AB5-806E

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332DRB403E10593I

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342DRB403F04B9E/

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6352ARB4018C810FR

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6362ARB4018BBF770

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 63729RB401A25B19M

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63829RB401A25B24J

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
   Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0701  
   Coding: 02042
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 4189038A4B8FE04AEF-4B00

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 E    HW: 8E0 920 951 E
   Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0110  
   Revision: 0110        Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0007714
   Shop #: WSC 00623 210 94099
   VCID: 2C57423E8C0D1D222C-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 E    HW: 8E0 920 951 E
   Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0110  
   Revision: 0110        Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0007714
   Shop #: WSC 00623 210 94099
   VCID: 2C57423E8C0D1D222C-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 8E0-951-177.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 951 177 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.   0804  
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 6BD581221983DA1A65-515E

1 Fault Found:
01463 - Alarm triggered by Sensor for anti-theft alarm System 
            81-00 - Open

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 959 433 CH
   Component: Komfortgerát T3B    4135  
   Coding: 07147
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 79F9AB6A63DF788AE7-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802F
   Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0606  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801F
   Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0606  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801E
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0606  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802E
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0606  

1 Fault Found:
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring 
            35-00 -  - 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 035 186 AA
   Component: concert II  GRO    0004  
   Coding: 01205
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 66C3F0160261E7723A-4AE8

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 07:25)--------------------------
 
   #9  

Gavra

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Fastest and cheapest will be to find someone who know how to use oscilloscope and have all required probes to properly check diesel engine.
 
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Peajar

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Ok, on a real computer so here is the JPPSG

Audi a4 2006 B7 quattro S-line (8E) 2.0tdi
Step1 – Car isn’t here right now, my wife has it at work, but the VIN is WAUZZZ8E27A093154, Engine number is BRD009003 What else is there to know?
Step2 – Stock as a rock. No modifications at all.
Step3- Last post
Step4- just been serviced, the 150,000km service. Has a good service history. Due for camshaft belt in about 20000kms, The problem is a slight engine stutter it almost feels like a misfire but more like the engine is choking. It kind of reminds me of trying to rev a lawnmower engine while you have the choke on still. Most noticeable around the 1800rpm mark (which is where I usually cruise) not so noticeable on hard acceleration. Sometimes present at idle. Ive been monitoring it for about 6-8 months now. The problem doesn’t seem to get worse, nor does it go away and I cannot find a pattern to when it will or won’t happen. I drove the car a few times today running a log through VCDS but it didn’t miss a beat today (except for the one time I went out without the laptop). I recently had the oil cooler fail and as past of fault finding for that I tested the head gasket and like I said, no compression chamber gases in the coolant. As part of the repairs for that, I replaced the thermostat and the oil cooler both with OEM parts. Two or three times now, when I have the *miss* and leave it idling it will bellow out white smoke from the exhaust. That seems to clear up if I go for a drive though. My car has always been rather stinky from the exhaust to the point where I shut up the windows in the house if im going to leave it idling in the driveway. The exhaust emissions are nasty and always present. Is that just a diesel audi thing? I don’t know.
Step5- Always OEM
Step6- The mysterious miss; which is probably linked to the noxious exhaust gases and white smoke.
Step7- Yup, even though most likely not related.
 
   #11  

Peajar

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Fastest and cheapest will be to find someone who know how to use oscilloscope and have all required probes to properly check diesel engine.
I didn't think they could be used to test diesels?
 
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Gavra

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No limits in use if you know how to use it .
 
   #13  

ExcelAutos

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A scope will capture other aspects of your cars engine including the injectors which will give a fuller picture of what is happening. Yes a scope can capture the diesel injectors however, unlike conventional petrol counterparts are Indirectly fired making it somewhat more difficult to use current draw as an indicator or an insight to how the mechanical components are behaving.

If you have a faulty injector, (as in, over fuelling) it may (should) be quickly shut down by the Ecu? maKing it even more difficult to capture.

Ps: some of my reply includes a quote from a good friend
 
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Peajar

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Should I not get a fault code for a faulty injector too?
 
   #15  

ExcelAutos

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Usually, yes.
Which is why you need a fuller picture of your cars behaviour. A diagnostic assessment. A technician will tell you what is working correctly as well as what's not.

This is nigh on impossible to diagnose over the written word without the vehicle in front of you and I am not going to attempt to. At the moment you're doing the 'best guess' method which works most of the time for most people. I include myself in that description in the past but not anymore.
 
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   #16  

Peajar

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Understood. I'll try and find a workshop that has the goods and get back to you all. I'll still post up the mvbs when I capture them and please feel free to chime in if you think of anything
 
   #17  

ExcelAutos

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Where abouts in Australia are you...... I know of a lad on Thursday Island with a picoscope who knows his onions
 
   #18  

Peajar

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Thanks but I'm in WA
 
   #19  

Robski

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Where abouts in Australia are you...... I know of a lad on Thursday Island with a picoscope who knows his onions
yes BUT does Andrew know his diesel's ?
 
   #20  

Jack@European_Parts

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VIN: WAUZZZ8E27A093154 Mileage: 156150km-97027miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-018-BRD.clb
Part No SW: 03G 906 018 AQ HW: 03G 906 018 AQ
Component: R4 2.0l PPD1.3 G 9971
Revision: --H23--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000172
Shop #: WSC 00028 210 01865
VCID: 74E79A5E17BD05E2B4-8020

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A
Why no fault codes for a misfire?
Is car modified?

Could coolant be entering by means of a cooler/heater from EGR?
 
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