Testbench setup?

[LeonID]

Hello guys,
I have a neu projekt now and maybe you can help me, it has something to do with ECU #16 and #44,
normaly an EPS#44 need some external agle signal, it is an normal CAN message from #16,
I connected EPS#44 to my CanRestBusSimmulation from Audi(it is Audi EPS), but I can not simulate a CanRBS from #16(to complex counter), thats why I always have a "External Agle Fail". then I connect #16(agle sensor) and #44 physically with cable, it was a solution from this problem,BUT now I need one more ECU... Can I hack the ECU#44(EPS) and say :"you do note need external agle anymore, work without it"? Maybe EEPROM programming? Thanks for reading,sorry I saw you write about#16 and maybe you have solution for it.

 

[iichel]

i know that some power steering units should be able to work without steering angle sensor, at least in the lower specced cars like a polo.
then the G85 is somehow integrated into the power steering unit.

is there some long coding available for your 44 ECU that says anything about steering angle, ESP, etc?

 

[LeonID]

nope, nothing about it...

 

[_Val]

Is it possible to connect to 1K0 (or 8P0) comfort module via VCDS if it's paired with just a 1K0 Gateway on the desk? Removed from working car.
Checked wiring at least 5 times. Only Gateway connects. Comfort says big NO.

Convenience wiring i'm using:

pin 2  - 12v permanent
pin 3  - ground
pin 9  - convenience CAN-H (to gateway)
pin 10 - convenience CAN-L (to gateway)

Do I also need steering angle and central electrics to make it alive?
It just ticks once when I turn on 12v source.

 

[Uwe]

Is it possible to connect to 1K0 (or 8P0) comfort module via VCDS if it's paired with just a 1K0 Gateway on the desk? Removed from working car.

I'm not sure. Some modules do require a "Virtual Terminal 15" (via CAN) from some other module, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of them.

-Uwe-

 

[Oski]

Hi guys. Sorry for hijacking the thread Anyone would be able to help me with BCM terminal 15 wiring on A3 8P? I managed to power BCM up, but it won't wake up. Measure block 62 shows term 15 off, neither bcm nor cluster wake up. I can partially diagnose BCM, and fully diagnose steering module, and gateway with VCDS, and these show term 15 on on MBs. Any ideas?

 

[_Val]

Any? OK

Ignition key solenoid N376 <==> Steering column ecu J527 <==> Onboard supply (BCM) J519.

I'm stuck with the same issue. Trying to power up comfort module without using BCM at all.

Is J681 relay physically on BCM? Slot B1 (KL15). No more clues.

 

[Oski]

Shame. It worked with bordnetz without issue, but now I'm stuck. BCM does not have the kl15 relay. I had implausibe signal fault on gateway, but I short wired pins in D socket on j527, and then it disappeared, but still no power on term15 on BCM:/ Help! :-)

 

[Oski]

Yeepee kay yay, I've made it lol. So ashamed to admit, but I kept miscounting flipping pins in C block of BCM, lol, got stuck on C-block, loool. I kept connecting pin 35 instead of 31 being sure it was 31 It's awaken now, wide awaken, the full bench.

J519 BCM
T52a/1 – KL30
T52a/23 – KL31
T52a/42 – KL31
T52b/12 – KL15
T52b/52 – KL31
T52c/5 – KL31
T52c/15 – CAN Conv H -> J533 T20/15 <-> J527 T20c/14
T52c/16 – CAN Conv L -> J533 T20/5 <-> J527 T20c/15
T52c/31 – KL15 aux output -> J527 T20c/17
J527 Steering wheel module
T8e/4 – KL31
T8e/12 – KL15
T20c/11 – CAN Powertrain L -> J533 T20/6
T20c/12 – CAN Powertrain H -> J533 T20/6
T20c/14 – CAN Conv H -> J519 T52c/15 <-> J533 T20/15
T20c/15 – CAN Conv L -> J519 T52c/16 <-> J533 T20/5
T20c/17 – KL15 aux output -> J519 T52c/31
T20c/19 – KL30
T20c/20 – KL31

And obviously J533 connections, but these can be easily found

 

[DV52]

hmm....... It's an absolute catastrophe of biblical proportions!! . Yes, something really odd has occurred to my (until now) faithful test bench and I seek advice as to a possible way forward!

First here's what the beast looks-like:

So - admittedly, I built the thing way back in 2016 and it's been subjected to numerous atrocities as various colleagues (mainly from a local forum) have tried to program the modules in ways that I suspect were never envisioned by VW. However, the thing has begrudgingly tolerated every abusive session that it has encountered: always firing-up and ready for more - that is, until this morning when the BCM apparently spat-the-dummy (a colloquial term for "refused to behave").

While DTCs abound whenever an auto-scan is taken because of the artificial environment (see autoscan below), the particular error which is most concerning is:

Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Cannot be reached
Unable to communicate with address 09. Are you sure the doors are unlocked?​

Yes, the BCM is registered on the installation list (note: no DTCs on the Gateway) and I've tried swapping the CAN high/low lines from a functioning module onto the the BCM with the same result. Other than the CAN comms problem, the BCM works OK - it correctly operates the simulated lighting board (see picture above) and the operation of the rotary light switch is unaffected - as is the simulated ignition key. Neither are the results of the autoscan affected by the volts from my power supply (amazingly, these modules seem to operate way down to about 7 Volts)

No matter what I try, I can't seem to get the Gateway to talk to the BCM - can anyone suggest a possible fix (other than replace the module)?

Don

Friday,17,May,2019,16:46:38:16808
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)  HEX-NET CB: 0.4437.4
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZAUZEW015673   License Plate: 
Mileage: 112010km-69599mi   Repair Order: 2019 AUTOSCAN



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: AU-VW37 (5Q0)
Scan: 09 16 17 19 42

VIN: WVWZZZAUZEW015673   Mileage: 112010km-69599miles

09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
16-Steering wheel -- Status: Malfunction 0010
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Cannot be reached
Unable to communicate with address 09. Are you sure the doors are unlocked?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:| 5Q0-953-549.clb
   Part No SW: 8V0 953 521 E    HW: 5Q0 953 549 A
   Component: Lenks. Modul  007 0070  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 08121100010724
   Coding: 8100
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 61029
   ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSKLOMQB 009001
   ROD: EV_SMLSKLOMQB_012_AU37.rod
   VCID: 3C34F198B72A0FAAC1-8068

1 Fault Found:
131140 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [008] - Missing Message
          [Time-Out Klemmen_Status_01: Time-Out Gateway]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:00:02

                    Operating time: 19981 min
                    Supply voltage: Terminal 30: 11.3 V
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Voltage at switch: 4.98 V
                    Terminal 15 status: not active
                    System status: 30


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5G0-920-XXX-17.clb-SRI3
   Part No SW: 5G0 920 961 A    HW: 5G0 920 961 A
   Component: KOMBI         252 2210  
   Coding: 231D1A000000080801000A00000000
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 61029
   ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB 008031
   ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB_008_VW37.rod
   VCID: 281C3DC853B2B30AB5-807C

10 Faults Found:
9453074 - Fuel Level Sensor 1 
          B103E 1B [009] - Resistance Too High
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

15361024 - Component Protection 
          U1101 00 [009] - Active
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

12691968 - Databus 
          U1200 00 [008] - Defective
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 23
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 00:00:00

16776962 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [Airbag_01 keine Kommunikation]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

16776968 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [ESP_24 keine Kommunikation]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

16776971 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [Motor_04 keine Kommunikation]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

16776988 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [TSK_07 keine Kommunikation]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54

9456433 - Key 
          B104B 31 [009] - No Signal
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.12
                    Time: 00:00:02

9456681 - Key 
          B104C 29 [009] - Implausible Signal
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:12:12

16776993 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [ESP_21 keine Kommunikation]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:06:54


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:| 5Q0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 5Q0 907 530 E    HW: 5Q0 907 530 E
   Component: GW MQB Mid    121 1109  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 0000073193
   Coding: 0000003828086400EF0006481C0F00000001000000000000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 61029
   ASAM Dataset: EV_GatewLear 006010
   ROD: EV_GatewLear_006.rod
   VCID: 3326DAA49A74C0D210-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:| 5QX-959-X93-42.clb
   Part No SW: 5Q4 959 593 B    HW: 5Q4 959 593 B
   Component: TSG FS        009 0014  
   Serial number: 0000081671967 
   Coding: 003000005001040100000100
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 61029
   ASAM Dataset: EV_DCUDriveSideEWMAXCONT 006001
   ROD: EV_DCUDriveSideEWMAXCONT.rod
   VCID: 44C48978CFDA776AB9-8010

3 Faults Found:
65571 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s) 
          U1111 00 [009] - -
          [Türelektronik Beifahrer (J387)]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:02:51

458752 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [Airbag_01 Datenbus fehlende Botschaft]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:02:51

458803 - Databus 
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [Motor_14 Datenbus fehlende Botschaft]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 112010 km
                    Date: 2016.01.11
                    Time: 00:02:51


End----(Elapsed Time: 00:27, VBatt start/end: 11.1V/11.1V. VIgn 11.1V)-----

 

[Zenerdiode]

Two thoughts/suggestions. I feel awful for asking this; but have you tried accessing the module directly? i.e. from the 'Select Control Module' form of VCDS?

Secondly, in your tinkering, could you have inadvertently flipped a Coding/Adaptation value that has now awoken the requirement to have the doors unlocked? You may have to add some door modules to get that information onto the CAN bus.

Have you tried your other diagnostic tools? Dumped any EEPROMS that you may have a backup that you can revert to?

 

[jyoung8607]

Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Cannot be reached
Unable to communicate with address 09. Are you sure the doors are unlocked?​

Yes, the BCM is registered on the installation list (note: no DTCs on the Gateway) and I've tried swapping the CAN high/low lines from a functioning module onto the the BCM with the same result. Other than the CAN comms problem, the BCM works OK - it correctly operates the simulated lighting board (see picture above) and the operation of the rotary light switch is unaffected - as is the simulated ignition key. Neither are the results of the autoscan affected by the volts from my power supply (amazingly, these modules seem to operate way down to about 7 Volts)

No matter what I try, I can't seem to get the Gateway to talk to the BCM - can anyone suggest a possible fix (other than replace the module)?

Ok, so... are you sure the doors are unlocked?

Seriously. If I recall correctly, there's at least one other thread kicking around here where the OP couldn't communicate with a BCM he swapped in, while the rest of the car was disassembled, and he had to temporarily reconnect one of the door control modules and hit unlock to make it work. Symptoms were just like yours: BCM was doing its job just fine except for diagnostics. Any chance you accidentally shorted the user lock control pins on the door control module you have there, and the BCM heard that? Can you reverse it?

 

[DV52]

Two thoughts/suggestions. I feel awful for asking this; but have you tried accessing the module directly? i.e. from the 'Select Control Module' form of VCDS?

Secondly, in your tinkering, could you have inadvertently flipped a Coding/Adaptation value that has now awoken the requirement to have the doors unlocked? You may have to add some door modules to get that information onto the CAN bus.

Have you tried your other diagnostic tools? Dumped any EEPROMS that you may have a backup that you can revert to?

Zener: Please don't apologize - I'll gladly accept ALL suggestions. Yes I did try direct access to the BCM with the same result, alas.

Thanks for the second suggestion - yes (again) it's a possibility, but it's difficult to pursue this line of investigation because most of the locking stuff in this non-kessy set-up resides within the BCM, itself - to which there is no CAN access.

Third suggestion - Yes, I did try that "other" diagnostic tool (the dongle that shall not be named). It gave me better access to parts of the BCM, but not deep enough access for changes to code-string, or adaptation channels (but at least it was able to read the code-string). I suspect the different response is because of the different operating mode of the dongle (I guess)

Don

 

[DV52]

Ok, so... are you sure the doors are unlocked?

Seriously. If I recall correctly, there's at least one other thread kicking around here where the OP couldn't communicate with a BCM he swapped in, while the rest of the car was disassembled, and he had to temporarily reconnect one of the door control modules and hit unlock to make it work. Symptoms were just like yours: BCM was doing its job just fine except for diagnostics. Any chance you accidentally shorted the user lock control pins on the door control module you have there, and the BCM heard that? Can you reverse it?

jyoung: Good-point! I tried as best I could to convince the BCM that the doors were "virtually" unlocked. I even installed a simple switch onto the driver door module to simulate an open driver door. I know that the micro-switch works because opening/closing the switch is mimicked on the instrument panel - see below (sorry for the poor quality picture). This suggests (to me at least) that the CAN bus does acknowledge that the doors are not locked. My hope was that in receiving this door-open message, the Gateway module would recognize that the BCM is telling "porkies" - but alas no!!

I also like your second suggestion - but it's difficult to believe that lock-control pins are implicated (I'm always wary of exposed pins on the modules when the test-bench is operating - so metal parts are avoided at all times!!).

hmm... I'm not willing to admit defeat just yet - but can someone tell me what "KLine init Failed" means (top LHS of screen shot below). More importantly, does this message that is returned from the BCM when trying to connect to J533 provide any intelligence to my investigations?

Don

 

[Zenerdiode]

but can someone tell me what "KLine init Failed" means

When VCDS tries to open a session with a control module at the Open Controller screen, it will first try to establish a connection over CAN; if it doesn’t get a response it will try the 5-baud initialisation on the K-Line. No response on K-Line will result in that message. Try opening a controller address that you definitely don’t have; and watch it go through the sequence in the top left.

The dialogue springs up when it fails to connect to the selected controller. The additional bit about the door locks is added in 09 because that is a reason for non-comms in some of those modules.

Interesting that your other dongle gets a bit further...

 

[DV52]

Zener: Why?

Don

PS: thanks for the explanation - I suspect it doesn't help in my investigations alas!!

However. as is my habit when learning something new , may I ask my normal, consequential question -please: why?

While I suspect that the two protocols are not jointly exhaustive, are they not mutually exclusive in modern cars? Or, is the flip-over to kline when CAN comms is unsuccessful purely for cars that have both protocols (are there vehicles in the VAG fleet that have both standards - perhaps cars built at the time of introduction of CAN )?

 

[jyoung8607]

Sometimes the module speaks one or the other; sometimes it's willing to speak BOTH. CAN is obviously preferred.

Sometimes the car has a mix of modules that can't all communicate the same way.

Sometimes the car/chassis cannot be identified, like when the car is very sick, or the application is a test bench without a gateway or instrument cluster, so the ideal communications methods can't be predicted in advance.

IIRC, when doing an Auto-Scan, and the chassis type has been identified, VCDS has some speed optimizations to skip K-line tries for modules that should have communicated by CAN but didn't. That is done using logic proprietary to Ross-Tech. When you try to open comms to a single module manually, I believe VCDS always tries everything.

 

[1975 Kombi]

So just to back up slightly. lol. Awesome thread by the way. I would like to connect the RNS510 on the bench via vagcom to change the designation of Dynaudio to basic audio to check if the internal amp is functioning through speakers. Am I able to set the designation of the RNS510 via a Vagcom cable through a Can gateway to the RNS510. If so I'm guessing I'll need a 2011 and up Can gateway?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Uwe]

So just to back up slightly. lol. Awesome thread by the way. I would like to connect the RNS510 on the bench via vagcom to change the designation of Dynaudio to basic audio to check if the internal amp is functioning through speakers. Am I able to set the designation of the RNS510 via a Vagcom cable through a Can gateway to the RNS510. If so I'm guessing I'll need a 2011 and up Can gateway?

I think pretty much any 1K-type CAN gateway will talk to an RNS510 if it's all wired properly. Early ones would cause the car to have battery drain problems when an RNS510 was installed, but that's of no consequence on a test bench.

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

OK - more questions to the knowledgeable folk here to get the BCM on my test-bench to stop lying about the doors being locked (post #130 above);

First question (and it's a particularly fundamental question - the answer to which I hope does not impinge on any VCDS commercial secrets): Other than operating as the "Fat-controller", what other must-have data does the CAN Gateway provide for successful communications with the VCDS cable. More specifically, I'm trying to understand why when I plug-in the CAN high/low lines from the OBD port on my test-bench directly into the CAN pins on any other control module (with volts connected, of course) - I can't get my HEX-NET to talk. I'm thinking that perhaps the Hex19 module adds/subtracts data from the message header on the other modules - but I'm guessing.

Second Question: Assuming that direct CAN (wiring) connection is possible, what software switch settings should I use on VCDS to maximize the chance of success?

As usual, any response is welcomed - and thanks muchly in advance,

Don