ALL THINGS EV - FSD - ROBOTAXIS, ETC. - ALL CONTENT - NO HATE

   #303  

Crasher

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   #305  

Uwe

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EV fire statistics are based on news reports? What's more likey to make the news -- an EV fire or a regular old car fire? There are so many "regular" car fires every year, on the order of 150,000 in the USA, that they are hardly considered newsworthy at all.

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   #306  

davisev5225

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"Regular" care fires are a lot easier to put out than an EV fire, and in most cases do less damage to the surrounding infrastructure. EV fires basically have to burn out their energy supply and tend to melt everything around them, including the asphalt. I've also read anecdotally that lithium battery fires have sunk ships because they can melt steel, though I haven't bothered to confirm that. My personal experience with lithium chemistry batteries leans towards believing that factoid.

Between the two, I'd say an EV fire is definitely newsworthy.
 
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   #307  

Uwe

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"Regular" care fires are a lot easier to put out than an EV fire, and in most cases do less damage to the surrounding infrastructure.
....
Between the two, I'd say an EV fire is definitely newsworthy.
Right, but the video's focus is on the incidence of battery fires, not their severity, and my contention is that "regular" car fires are likely more under-reports in the stats than car battery fires.

-Uwe-
 
   #312  

davisev5225

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Perhaps more hope than belief at this point in the game... ;)
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   #313  

Uwe

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At the risk of repeating myself (again): EVs make sense for some use-cases, but not for others.

Cars displaced horses because they were a better solution for many transportation scenarios. They had more range and got you to your destination faster than a horse, or a horse-drawn wagon/coach/cart or whatever. EVs do not have more range, and do not get you places faster. In fact, for long distance travel, they are distinctly slower due to the time required to recharge them. So the argument is purely economic: Lower running cost, particularly "fuel", which is true only if you charge at home; DC fast charging costs generally don't save over the cost of fueling a car. Energy independence can also be a factor if one has home solar with excess capacity. And of course there's the fun factor; many relatively pedestrian EVs have acceleration that's in super-car or crotch-rocket territory.

I believe the thing that's still hindering adoption for use-cases where they make sense is the cost differential. If I need to commute, say 20 miles each way to work every day, I can buy a brand-new Jetta for ~$25k. If I want something a bit bigger, a Tiguan costs ~$30k. When people can buy comparable EVs at those kinds of prices, they might start selling again.

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Uwe

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   #316  

BlueR32

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Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want Slate to eat its lunch.

-Uwe-

I'm sure no auto maker wants to lose out to the competition. I expect however that the Ford mini will probably be less "basic" than the Slate because Ford knows most consumers expect certain features that have become std. in the last decade or so.

I still don't see EVs becoming mainstream sales any time soon unless mandated by climate Nazis. ;)
 
   #317  

Uwe

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I still don't see EVs becoming mainstream sales any time soon
In some areas of the country, Teslas are pretty common/mainstream.

FWIW, I drove Santos' Model Y yesterday. It's pretty nice, and hauls azz, although there are a few things that would take some getting used to.

-Uwe-
 
   #318  

BlueR32

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My point was EV SALES will not be predominant over ICE vehicle sales unless mandated by the Nazis - like across the pond. Consumers have voted with their wallet which is why U.S. EV sales have tanked costing the major auto makers billions. Until consumers conclude that EVs meet their specific needs better than an ICE powered vehicle only financial bribes are likely to sway consumers.
 
   #319  

Uwe

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Consumers have voted with their wallet
Yeah, but why? My contention is that at least in part, it's due to the higher cost of EVs. Basically, EV sales fell off a cliff when they stopped being subsidized by the $7500 tax credit, and this situation is not unique to the USA. I believe if they were comparably priced, plenty of consumers for whom they are a good fit in terms of use-case would choose EVs.

What's keeping them high-priced? The cost of batteries, and the fact that manufacturers insist on engaging in range-spec wars, in other words, packing in as big and expensive a battery as they possibly can, which is not at all needed for the use-cases that EVs actually fit into well, i.e. commuting, grocery getting, taking the kids to whatever local things the kids do, an so on, and charging at home, overnight. A range of somewhere between 100 and 200 miles is plenty for that. Build an EV with that kind of range using less expensive LFP batteries and you can sell it for a reasonable price. But for some reason, the industry doesn't seem to want to do that.

-Uwe-
 
   #320  

davisev5225

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A range of somewhere between 100 and 200 miles is plenty for that. Build an EV with that kind of range using less expensive LFP batteries and you can sell it for a reasonable price. But for some reason, the industry doesn't seem to want to do that.
I would argue that the industry is doing exactly what consumers want. Range anxiety is still very much a thing, and most people don't want to have to plug their car in "every night" any more than they want to refuel their car "every day".

Also, while most people average a low number of miles per day that an EV could easily fulfill, consumers tend to want range for the exception/rare trip rather than their average trip distance. I certainly wouldn't want an EV with 200 miles of range, even though most of my driving doesn't even leave my home town anymore, because I do have the occasional trip that's ~120 miles round-trip, with hills (so more energy consumed), and there's no EV charging at the destination. I also might want to travel ~300 miles one-way a couple times a year or so, which would be incredibly annoying if I only have 200 miles of charge available.

The bottom line is that my ICE vehicle isn't at all expensive to maintain given my low overall miles driven in a given year now, and it has the range I need if I choose to take a longer trip. I'm the sort of driver that can absolutely burn through the entire tank (~450-500 miles) without taking a single pit-stop, so the "rest and charge" argument that EV types try to push doesn't work on me, either.
 
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