VW Passat B5 FL key matching on table

[automech]

Hi all,

I cannot match the key to cluster from Passat B5 FL on the bench (I'm doing little project and there is no car, just parts connected together).
I have PIN from this cluster and new transponder but when I enter the numbers of keys i get ERROR in test field.

MVB says that the transponder is good to be programmed, there is no lockout time neither, fixed and variable code values are 0, and immo status is 6.

Also I can remove key from coil and cluster is not showing any changes until I cycle the power OFF and ON.

Any ideas what makes the key matching not possible when cluster is removed out of the car??

 

[Uwe]

B5 Facelift is Immo-3. I think the cluster will only allow you to program a key when it has a matched ECU it can communicate with.

-Uwe-

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

A cluster will allow for the key to be married without an ecu and will not allow for an ecu to be married unless valid keys are stored in an ecu when a cluster is in virgin state. Try clearing the key count first and then saving, further with terminal 15 cycled. Post a scan of what you have and the key associated blocks + immo status.

 

[Jetta 97]

A cluster will allow for the key to be married without an ecu and will not allow for an ecu to be married unless valid keys are stored in an ecu when a cluster is in virgin state.

This is only will happen in Immo 2, If you have Immo 3 you need to have ECU to be able to adopt keys.

Hi all,

I cannot match the key to cluster from Passat B5 FL on the bench (I'm doing little project and there is no car, just parts connected together).
I have PIN from this cluster and new transponder but when I enter the numbers of keys i get ERROR in test field.

You have answer above.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

This is only will happen in Immo 2, If you have Immo 3 you need to have ECU to be able to adopt keys.

I can tell you that this is not always the case than in Immo 3..............on the bench............ or in the car.

As a matter of fact.......... I had Eric right there with me to witness on an IMMO3 02 Golf TDI.

With brand new equipment while experimenting that day, we couldn't do an 050 from the cluster to the ecu until we married a valid key to the cluster first.

I marry keys to clusters all the time with Immo3......... on the bench & with no ecu in the mix.

 

[Jetta 97]

I marry keys to clusters all the time with Immo3......... on the bench & with no ecu in the mix.

Jack,
I have done this 100 times, and there is no way to adopt keys with VCDS in immo 3 if you do not have ECU and cluster connected .If you have only cluster , It will display Error once you press Test Value.
I am not saying you have to have original ECU form car , it can be any ECU , But Immo 3 HAS TO have ECU and cluster at same time to be able to adopt keys, either on table or in car.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Marin

I respectfully disagree.

If a proper approved bench harness, with the specified terminations in an EOLE setting; the cluster needs no connection to the ecu to marry a key to the cluster.

At least it doesn't for me.

Time to do some pull ups......

There is not always one way......

 

[automech]

Problem solved

Sorry Jack, but Jetta97 is 100% right in my case. Today I connected the EDC16U34 ECU from Passat 3C to my cluster from 3B Passat with CAN wires. The cluster saw ECU response as 1 in MVB 22, and I had no problem matching the key.

I wonder what do you mean by "specified terminations in an EOLE"? Something to do with changing diagnostic session?

Thank you everyone for helping!

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

When working on the bench........ the cluster is looking for a "resistance value" on CAN High/Low .......not that the ECU is actually there.

That's why it doesn't give a shit if it is seeing an ECU, or a specific ECU....... or in my case a proper rated resistor.

So technically you're both wrong.......however, think what you want.


I thought this was funny......... History.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=392911

 

[Jetta 97]

When working on the bench........ the cluster is looking for a "resistance value" on CAN High/Low .......not that the ECU is actually there.

That's why it doesn't give a shit if it is seeing an ECU, or a specific ECU....... or in my case a proper rated resistor.

So technically you're both wrong.......however, think what you want.

Anyway we were talking about not having ECU at all, What you do you simulate wires buy tricking Cluster . If you do not have Stimulation on Cluster not possible to adopt keys.
Next time say yes it is possible with out ECU but you need to stimulate CAN-H and CAN -L.

Anyway I think CAN-H and CAN -L is not important,
I would say , It is looking for W-Line.
I had other day Passat B5.5 where CAN-H and CAN-L was shorted by TCU. I find out this when I went to 17-Cluster BMV 125 and all was 0, ECU, ABS , and Airbag.
But I was able to adopt keys to that car.

I will test this and give feed back .

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Anyway we were talking about not having ECU at all, What you do you simulate wires buy tricking Cluster . If you do not have Stimulation on Cluster not possible to adopt keys.
Next time say yes it is possible with out ECU but you need to stimulate CAN-H and CAN -L.

Anyway I think CAN-H and CAN -L is not important,
I would say , It is looking for W-Line.
I had other day Passat B5.5 where CAN-H and CAN-L was shorted by TCU. I find out this when I went to 17-Cluster BMV 125 and all was 0, ECU, ABS , and Airbag.
But I was able to adopt keys to that car.

I will test this and give feed back .

Marin,

Oh they are important ........CAN High/Low is The CAN K lines or the "W" BUS ........as you understand from earlier applications .........they are no different...........

In the WD they are referenced as High and Low for the tracks.............collectively the W line as you aforementioned incorrectly, which is a sub system CAN bus, or also considered a CAN LOW/HIGH K LINE

I think it's best to know how a system actually operates, verse saying that something is just required.

Instead of trying to sound smart .........open your mind.

Did you know that with only one side of the CAN hooked up....... on the "W line's" or "K on CAN High/LOW line's" you can get an EPC and MIL to light up on cluster?

If it's a bad connection with not the proper resistance .........you get the same error for keys......because block values show the ECU..........or at least VCDS displays what the controller sees.

Did you know that often a common failure on CAN communications in the "ECU" the termination resistor likes to fail?

I suggest you research old auto-scans for that resistor fault.

Please show the "W bus" reference in a WD after the year 2000......... in a Passat B5........I just don't see it.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

An explanation to above ......you know to learn.

 

[Jetta 97]

Jack I know all about this.
The point here is we were talking about not have ECU at all, Means ONLY cluster , nothing else , not can simulators , no ECU.

Buddy , We are on same page but thinking different way.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Jack I know all about this.
The point here is we were talking about not have ECU at all, Means ONLY cluster , nothing else , not can simulators , no ECU.

Buddy , We are on same page but thinking different way.

No not really ......I am referencing why you could still have an error, while even having your beloved wrong ECU plugged in; and why I/you/anyone, don't have or need an ECU connected, with the facts to back it up.

Did you find the W line yet in Passat B5 WD?

Marin you know me .......I wouldn't just normally say something just to say it.

I can and do make mistakes ........this is not one of those times.

If you know all about this, than don't say it isn't or can't be so.............

OP
EOLE = "End/External of Line Engineering"

( Can be an actual proprietary VAS/VAG mode, security access level assignment, or an actual EXTERN/INTERN title within the VWAG organization )