Sell me on EVs.... VAG or otherwise...

[BlueR32]

More proof that autopilot failed and can't be trusted.

 

[Crasher]

FSD right now is Supervised. The driver still has to keep eyes on the road, and take over if necessary.

Wham bam tesla cam shows a lot of human interaction causing the accidents. I didnt really see much of FSD bugging out and crashing due to programming. Its more autopilot does something, human over corrects and crashes.

Autopilot and FSD are not the same. Autopilot = active cruise control, FSD = level 2 automation

The recent sensationalized story thats been making the rounds is the cybertruck that crashed into the guardrail in a highway.

The driver turned off autopilot 4 seconds before crashing into the wall. People are quick to blame the tech, when they should be blaming the driver.

Is FSD perfect, nope , but the tech will save lives.

Even if Tesla manage to perfect it, one day it will make a mistake, no matter what, so who gets the blame?

 

[PetrolDave]

Even if Tesla manage to perfect it, one day it will make a mistake, no matter what, so who gets the blame?

I think that's the $64,000 question - if the driver can prove (from vehicle logs) that FSD was engaged will that be sufficient to shift liability to "the FSD system"?

If it does will Governments really be able to sort out whether the vehicle manufacturer is responsible or one of their software sub-contractors? - look at the current mess of software in VAG vehicles developed by teams in-house and sub-contracted!

And will all of that be enough to stop legal actions brought by family groups et al against drivers?

At the moment it's a legal minefield IMHO.

 

[Crasher]

Agreed, all it will take is one class action in Merica and the entire system will collapse and I think this bill may be a tad more than $64k, more like $64 Billion.

 

[Crasher]

A report in today’s Sunday Mail backs up what I have been screaming about with hybrids for years, you are three times more likely to die in a post crash hybrid fire than in a pure combustion engine vehicle post crash fire. The gumberment run by DickEd Milliband doesn’t want to know, probably classed as collateral damage. The man is a minister but effectively runs the country and vetoed us assisting the US in Iran… wanker.

 

[Uwe]

you are three times more likely to die in a post crash hybrid fire than in a pure combustion engine vehicle post crash fire.

Kinda makes sense. Having both a good-sized li-ion nattery and a tank full of fuel involved in a conflagration is likely worse than just one or the other.

-Uwe-

 

[NZDubNurd]

Here in NZ, you have to pay $76 per 1000 kilometers for "Road User Charges" (RUC) for an electric car, same as a diesel car. Petrol cars have additional tax on the fuel price, so don't have to pay it. PHEV's have to pay the RUC at half the rate and non-plugin hybrids don't pay RUC.

So at the moment, it doesn't make sense for me to go electric; mostly because I would have to pay at least 3 times what I'd normally spend on a used car, to go electric (for an electric car I'd consider "acceptable").

A decent PHEV would work perfectly for my wife - she could use electric mode probably 95% of the time, but still do long trips when required and also not have any range anxiety etc. But the RUC makes them less desirable for her use case.

I've tried talking her into an old leaf as a run-around-shitbox, but she had ZERO interest.

I have looked at the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Dull AF, and REALLY expensive if you want any goodies on it. A top spec one with a few options is just under NZ$100K... and I can get a 2004 Aston Martin Vanquish for that money!!!

Also, for that money, you can get a basic Toyota Highlander hybrid, no RUC and not bad economy. Even duller than the Mitsubishi though! I've have to get a white one, to remind me it in entirely an appliance.

Because I'm old now, I often think I should buy "sensible family vehicles", like a Toyota... but then I drive them and realise a 20 year old German car often feels nicer and end up buying something that isn't sensible or even worse... Like another Land Rover


Besides all that... car makers STILL aren't making cars with 3 useful rear seats , so our 20 year old VW Tourans are our main transport for the foreseeable future. They really owe me nothing and aren't worth much, so the fuel cost is always going to be cheaper than "upgrading" to anything that costs money, that I could cope with having to drive.

The whole car situation is fucked.

 

[Crasher]

People with EV's and PHEV's are currently smug and going ha ha as they can run on electric whilst those with Diesel's can't get fuel around here, petrol seems to be OK at the moment. Their problem WILL come when in the UK we start to have four hour rolling blackouts as we head for net zero, added to that, the grid will purge their batteries overnight to "keep the lights on", it is all utter madness. One day, when those who believe in net zero, realise they have been conned and we have all spent hundred of trillions of whichever first world currency you like, there will be hell to pay and those who pushed the agenda, will need to watch their backs.

 

[BlueR32]

People with EV's and PHEV's are currently smug and going ha ha as they can run on electric whilst those with Diesel's can't get fuel around here, petrol seems to be OK at the moment. Their problem WILL come when in the UK we start to have four hour rolling blackouts as we head for net zero, added to that, the grid will purge their batteries overnight to "keep the lights on", it is all utter madness. One day, when those who believe in net zero, realise they have been conned and we have all spent hundred of trillions of whichever first world currency you like, there will be hell to pay and those who pushed the agenda, will need to watch their backs.

The crims and clueless are never held accountable. THAT is the real problem and why these radical agendas manage to gain support. There are zero consequences for the fraud and lies.

 

[Crasher]

 

[BlueR32]

Moved

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Bruh, why are you constantly polluting my post with unrelated garbage?
Is this somehow related to my topic? People have genuinely put effort into related discussions, but you're constantly derailing all those efforts.

Wouldn't it be better if you just started your own post about random, unrelated garbage?

 

[BlueR32]

Bruh, why are you constantly polluting my post with unrelated garbage?
Is this somehow related to my topic? People have genuinely put effort into related discussions, but you're constantly derailing all those efforts.

Wouldn't it be better if you just started your own post about random, unrelated garbage?

You don't OWN this thread... If you aren't sold on EVs by now, then you never will be. The EV discussion has been beat to death. Robotaxis are definitely part of the EV eco system and their issues are relavant.

Be civil and stop complaining because you don't like the content.

 

[Uwe]

Is this somehow related to my topic?

Not really. Self-driving technology is something totally separate from EVs. The only reason people conflate the two is that Tesla has been on the cutting edge of both, but there's no reason that a self-driving "robo taxi" couldn't have a conventional drivetrain.

You don't OWN this thread...

Since he's the OP, the person who started this thread, in a manner of speaking, he does.

-Uwe-

 

[BlueR32]

Not really. Self-driving technology is something totally separate from EVs. The only reason people conflate the two is that Tesla has been on the cutting edge of both, but there's no reason that a self-driving "robo taxi" couldn't have a conventional drivetrain.


-Uwe-

In regards to the moved Robotaxi link that was previously posted in this thread...

"All generations of Apollo Go robotaxi are electric vehicles.

As the service has evolved, the vehicles have transitioned from retrofitted electric cars to purpose-built electric autonomous vehicles:

• 5th Generation (Apollo Moon): These vehicles, released around 2021, are based on electric vehicle platforms (such as the Arcfox electric car).
• 6th Generation (Apollo RT6): Unveiled in 2022 and launched for service in 2024–2025, these are purpose-built, all-electric robotaxis with detachable steering wheels."

 

[Crasher]

I think EV’s and self driving cars are directly related, they are both the product of blatant stupidity.

 

[BlueR32]

I think EV’s and self driving cars are directly related, they are both the product of blatant stupidity.

Excellent safety information for all EV owners/drivers/passengers.

 

[eljay]

Good evening. I absolutely agree with Sebastian's points but I do want to firstly comment on:


That logic would be great but the VW App and software update availability is terrible in our market. The only real phone app controls you have for 2021 - 2023 model years are start climate now/stop climate now and a menu related to the charge limit. When toggling on/off the SOC battery limit function (Battery Care Mode) via the MIB it defaults to 80% even in winter.

The other BEV vehicles we have experience with (2017 e-golf before the 3G retirement, 2022 e-tron 55, the prior 2023 Mini cooper SE and my husband's current 2023 F150 Lightning) all came with apps that had actual functions.

For instance, on the legacy platform e-tron I can change schedules for climate and schedules for charging. You can start or stop active charging providing it is plugged in, view historical trip/efficiency data and do basic things like unlock or lock the doors.​

The 2024+ NAR models that were built with the latest hardware just gained the ability to lock and unlock doors via the app after a dealer level update (not-OTA) but that will never happen for the old ones.

ID.4 conclusion, if you are only shopping current models rather than used your entire vehicle experience will be far better than mine (2021 ID.4 and 2023 ID.4) but don't expect much out of the app. Negative storm cloud rant over.



Next, I need to firstly disclose that we kill cars due to lack of use combined with winter road treatment/rust and age rather than miles. I'll skip the full 20+ year recap on the ICE models and move to BEV. We bought the 2017 e-golf at 3 years of age in Nov, 2020 and it had 15,000 miles on it. Fast forward just over 5 years and I rolled 30,000 miles on Feb 25th, 2026. I got a photo of that epic moment! https://photos.app.goo.gl/uJx5rq5ZcNuPY9WC6

The e-golf was born on 22.08.2017 so the battery components are even older and we're talking borderline first gen Nissan Leaf era battery management so the roughly 12% degradation is beyond acceptable IMO. In the worst of winter this year with lows at -20F, roof rack/wind deflector/bike carriers and winter tires the GOM got down to an all time low of 78 miles after an on-grid HVAC cabin precondition at 80% SOC. Now that the worst of that season is over and the roof rack business is removed I'm back to 100 miles at 80% but he's still rocking winter tires and they aren't fancy low rolling resistance ones either. You might be able to zoom in on this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9BfvGGrsrvd3x5BU8


Due to our vehicle use-case I never consider ROI with cars. Luckily the e-golf came from a VW auction and lived in California for the first 3 years of life so it hasn't needed all new coil springs/control arms, etc yet. The 2012 Tiguan that we traded for it was completely hammered rust wise at 65K miles and 8.5 years of age. When it started the timing chain clack, needed the 2nd replacement turbo in addition to new rear axle arms/bushings that failed safety inspection he turned into a trade since it still had some value and started/ran.

Within the first week of our driveway looking like 2017 Touareg, 2018 Alltrack and 2017 e-golf ... the ICE ones sat. They continued to sit. Big Boris the T'reg (that Chad formerly drove daily) kept getting flat spots on those factory SUV 20's so we had to start driving it every 2 to 3 weeks to get the shake out like a scheduled service followed by putting him back into garage queen parking mode.

My 2018 Alltrack got traded in at just under 3 years with close to 10K miles on the initial 2021 ID.4 First edition in June 2021. Boris the formerly precious T'reg went on trade in roughly May 2022 with a whopping 26K miles on it and turned into a Mini Cooper SE BEV. Every yard and lawn tool that needed replaced or simply added to our collection was Stihl 36V battery. I gave away all of the engine oil and the handful of VAG filters we had.


In closing, if someone gave me a brand new ICE car I'd try to refuse at this point in time. If refusal failed I'd donate it to charity or someone in need.

Things can change and we may find ourselves in a position where we need to add ICE back to our household but I'm fine running my vehicles and most equipment on sunshine for now. We use about 10 gallons of diesel in the tractor per year and we still own 3 Stihl tools that run 50:1 but a gallon of Motomix lasts over a year.

Sorry (not sorry) for bringing this post back to the forefront, but you have a list of the exact EVs that interest me. OK, that heat-pump dryer too, but my wife will never give up her air-sucking vent dryer. I wish they were just banned like in the EU.

Our first BEV will be an OG e-tron to replace our A4 Allroad. I initially looked for a newer Allroad, but then e-trons popped into the same price range and I slowly accepted that we will have a giant SUV. I think I once proclaimed I would never own an SUV, ahem.
And its likely replacement years later will be whichever European carmaker brings over a nice EV wagon or some cool Chinese BEV wagon will be it.

Wife's current runaround car is a Mini Cooper 5-door and while I love them, she doesn't. Yes, it's not too practical, but I just love how it drives even in base config. I would love to get Mini Cooper SE as its replacement, but e-Golf would be more sensible and practical. It bugs me that there is no remote app functionality with the 3g sunset.
Can't you smart people at Ross-Tech invent something to connect to the car to wake it up and fire up bum-warmers and cabin heater on demand?! C'mon!

Is it annoying having your e-Golf without remote app functions? And how was the Mini Cooper ownership compared to the Golf? Why did you sell it?

P.S. My worst dilemma will be what to do with my beloved BMW E91 that will inevitably just be sitting in the corner of the driveway crying its oily tears begging to be driven.

 

[Dana]

Is it annoying having your e-Golf without remote app functions? And how was the Mini Cooper ownership compared to the Golf? Why did you sell it?

It is most annoying in winter because you have to schedule HVAC preconditioning from inside the car the day before.

There have been times where we got more snow overnight than expected and rather than having to do a short-notice plow out at 5:30 AM (plow truck snow mound so large that a car will high center) my husband drives a more capable vehicle. The e-tron is great with that suspension in high mode and go chonk style... but the e-golf preconditions on-grid for no reason when you could have turned that off if there was an app.​

​

The logic may sound all wrong here but if one of us has to gear up and go out to turn the schedule off we could just take tractor keys and start plowing the township mess at the end of the driveway instead. Neither are appealing at that time of day. Once you have been spoiled by a warm, and ice-free if it was outside, car in winter this first world problem will make sense.​

The Mini cooper SE was a great car. We named ours Margaret but she was worth enough on trade that it made sense to get rid of it when we picked up the 2023 ID.4.


Mini versus e-golf. Although they should be directly comparable that wasn't the case for me. The Mini cooper was 2-door so getting stuff (or dogs) in and out of the rear was an inconvenience. Likewise with parking, high wind, etc with massive doors on a tiny car. The hatch space was extremely limited as well and it only had Apple Car play (I'm Android and my husband uses iDevices).

However if you like great seats, knobs, toggles, buttons and enthusiastic driving on that old-school FWD GTI Mk3/4 level in what feels like an electric golf cart the Mini Cooper SE will do it! Even though it looks like a brick the high speed efficiency was way better than the e-golf as well. AC charging efficiency was terrible (87%) but the car was far more efficient overall so that offset the charging losses when compared to the e-golf.

The e-golf feels heavy and slow in comparison and it isn't as efficient but I prefer it. It holds a lot more stuff, is useful to me for Ross-tech things, supports Android Auto and if I had to choose what to get T-boned in by the average full size American truck it would be Golfy.

P.S. My worst dilemma will be what to do with my beloved BMW E91 that will inevitably just be sitting in the corner of the driveway crying its oily tears begging to be driven.

Exactly. Final Alltrack day June 4th 2021:

New photo · Friday, Jun 4, 2021 📸

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

You can see Golfy off in the distance in this shot :-)

New photo · Friday, Jun 4, 2021 📸

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Uwe]

OK, that heat-pump dryer too, but my wife will never give up her air-sucking vent dryer. I wish they were just banned like in the EU.

Have they actually banned conventional dryers? A quick web search indicates an energy efficiency rating system of A (most efficient) to G (least efficient). There also seems to be some kind of repairability index under consideration, and of course a conventional dryer is rather more repairable than a heat-pump dryer. And of course, heat-pump driers take much longer to dry clothes than conventional ones.

-Uwe-