2017 Jetta, twist key ignition, no crank. Seems the owner of the car was out of town when one day the car didn't crank over. Car towed to [some place] and after many hours of banging rocks together decided the ECM was bad, so a new ECM was installed... and no crank. I guess a few more rocks banged together and was told it needed a starter. Owner of car rightfully thinks this shop is full of chalk eaters and tows the car back to his home town. In said home town, [another shop] gets it and starts poking around... do a few simple things (swap out starter relays) but getting no where.... before more $$$ is put into this Jetta, reaches out to us (Ross-Tech).
No relevant fault codes to be found, some caused due to unplugging stuff for testing were cleared out prior to that Auto-Scan.
Looking at live data in the ECM for the Terminal 50 signal (starter), it doesn't change when key is in crank position, as such, the ECM has no reason to operate the 2 starter relays.
Looking at the wiring diagram, a simple ignition switch.
T10/4 is the Terminal 50 signal coming out electrical part of the ignition switch and it does have power when key is in the crank position. This wire runs to the ECM T99/44 and there is no power there when the key is in the crank position... seems to be a wiring failure and we are maybe 15 minutes into the phone call. The tech back probes T99/44 and hotwires it to B+, engine cranks and fires up.
So the good news, a broken wire... the bad news... have fun finding that. The call ends at 10:48 AM.
11:20 AM, this other shop calls back, found the issue... it seems that maybe the owner the car move the steering wheel in/out a lot, to the point the wiring was cracking apart... and the wire that carried the Terminal 50 signal to the ECM was open circuit:
A concern is that this might become a bit of an "common" issue as these cars get older, not a good sign that soo many wires have cracking insulation all at the same area.
I'm a bit ... confused... as to why the first shop didn't look to see if the ECM was getting a Terminal 50 signal... but instead dropped in a $1000 ECM (plus labor and diag time)... and then wanted to toss a $250 starter (plus labor) at it.
I would guess the owner of the car is going to be "thrilled" to find out the car just needed $30 worth of crimp connectors plus labor to fix the no crank issue.
Code:
Monday,21,April,2025,10:01:52:51151
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: 25.3.1.1 (x64) HEX-NET2 CB: 0.4671.5
Data version: 20250415 DS365.0
www.Ross-Tech.com
Dealer/Shop Name: [another shop]
VIN: 3VW2B7AJ3HM****** License Plate:
Chassis Type: AJ-VW36 (7E0)
Scan: 01 02 03 04 08 09 15 17 19 25 44 5F
VIN: 3VW2B7AJ3HM****** Mileage: 360560km-224041miles
01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CZTA) Labels:. 04E-907-309-V1.clb
Part No SW: 04E 906 023 AL HW: 04E 907 309 AP
Component: R4 1.4l TFS H22 3669 Revision: X5H22--- CVN:
3BBC5B28
Coding: 011A0012232400000000
Shop #: WSC 25272 005 1048576
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM14TFS01104E906023AL 005004
ROD: EV_ECM14TFS01104E906023AL.rod
VCID: EA862CDBFCF315AAB1E-80BE
VINID: 0E69C248745A0D87421451C204C4B99C4C
Center armrest control head 1:
No fault code found.
Readiness: 1110 0101
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 09G-927-749-V2.clb
Part No SW: 09G 927 749 AA HW: 09G 927 749 Component: AISIN
AG6 G3 129 3128 CVN: 56A8984D
Coding: 010200000C000000000000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00011
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAQ250031 002009
ROD: EV_TCMAQ250031_002_VW23.rod
VCID: F8A20693B25FB73A37A-80AC
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels:. 1K0-907-379-EC1-V4.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 CC HW: 1K0 907 379 CC
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H46 0175 Revision: 00H46001
Coding: A14B400C492700FF851202E6921A004120100012
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: F5BC0FA7A5CDCA522CC-80A0
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 5C0-820-047.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 820 047 DA HW: 5C0 820 047 DA
Component: J301 Klimaanlage 0211 Revision: 2001401S Serial
number: 00000003583908
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00011
VCID: E29644FB08434DEA79E-80B6
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 7E0-937-BCM-V1.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 937 189 A HW: 7E0 937 189 Component: BCM PQ25
MMI3 H81 0744 Revision: BA081001 Serial number: 91007230163562
Coding: 7B994B1808AB0B0000392080240884C54BC6722E600151F0B00010032844
Shop #: WSC 25272 005 1048576
VCID: B236F4BB14239D6AC9E-80E6
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 DF HW: 6R0 959 801 DF
Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
Component: J386__TSG_FT 022 1467 Serial number: 14102743160823024400
Coding: 820000
Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 DJ HW: 6R0 959 802 DJ
Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
Component: J387__TSG_BT 022 1467 Serial number: 14102742160823061808
Coding: 820000
Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6C0 959 442 G HW: 6C0 959 442 G
Component: E221__MFL-TAT H06 0023 Serial number:
2041606423700776BE2B
Coding: 280000
Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 811 T HW: 6R0 959 811 T
Component: J388__TSG_HL 022 1467 Serial number: 14102745160822152334
Coding: 000000
Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 812 T HW: 6R0 959 812 T
Component: J389__TSG_HR 022 1467 Serial number: 14102744160823143901
Coding: 000000
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:* 561-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 561 959 655 HW: 561 959 655 Component: AirbagVW11
008 0210 Serial number: 003RXM088UEG Dataset Number: 5C6003V____
0017
Coding: 8CCCF000000000005000001AC20800000065
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00011
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW11SMEVW411 001002
ROD: EV_AirbaVW11SMEVW411.rod
VCID: E39841FF1BD944E2728-80B6
Seat occupied recognition: Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 4M0 959 339
B HW: 4M0 959 339 B
Component: BF-Gewichtss. H13 0022 Serial number:
IBH000000000005OI75J
Coding: 303142
Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: Subsystem 2 - Part No
SW: ----------- HW: 480 000 707 16
Component: SideSensor_Df 001 0887 Serial number:
3570000000084B715C1L
Crash sensor for side airbag: passenger side: Subsystem 3 - Part
No SW: ----------- HW: 480 000 707 16
Component: SideSensor_Pf 001 0887 Serial number:
35800000000E5D715C1V
Rear Side Airbag Crash Sensor (on driver's side): Subsystem 4 -
Part No SW: ----------- HW: 480 022 107 16
Component: SideSensor_Dr 000 0148 Serial number:
35100019D21816E1951.
Passenger side rear thorax airbag crash sensor: Subsystem 5 -
Part No SW: ----------- HW: 480 022 107 16
Component: SideSensor_Pr 000 0148 Serial number:
35200019D21816E2153X
Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: Subsystem 6 - Part No
SW: ----------- HW: 480 023 007 16
Component: FrontSensor_D 000 0189 Serial number:
3550001C12216ED527C5
Crash sensor for front airbag: passenger side: Subsystem 7 - Part
No SW: ----------- HW: 480 023 007 16
Component: FrontSensor_P 000 0189 Serial number:
3560001C12216ED387FD
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 5C6 920 956 A HW: 5C6 920 956 A
Component: KOMBI H02 1104 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 220A010000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00319
ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A05733
ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_005_VW32.rod
VCID: AE0EE0CB009BB98AAD6-80FA
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 7E0-909-901.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 909 901 HW: 7E0 937 189 Component: GW-K-CAN
TP20 H81 0744 Revision: BA081001 Coding: 102201
Shop #: WSC 25272 005 1048576
VCID: E88256D3E27F27BAA7A-80BC
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5K0 953 234 Component: IMMO
H02 1104 Serial number: Coding: 000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00319
ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW32.rod
VCID: EA862CDBFCF315AAB1E-80BE
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 305 3501 Revision: 00H22000
Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
VCID: B924C397C5556E32084-80EC
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794) Labels:| 5G0-035-MIB-ENT2.clb
Part No SW: 561 035 150 A HW: 561 035 150 A
Component: MU-E--US 055 7067 Serial number: 15071600012827
Dataset Number: V03935249AS 0001
Coding: 02630100AA00000041220001001000009F0000D40000010000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00011
ASAM Dataset: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE 001032
ROD: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE_VW32.rod
VCID: 8B48495FD3C9ACA26A8-80DE
No fault code found.
End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:06, VBatt start/end: 12.1V/12.1V)-----------
---------------------------No fault code found.----------------------------No relevant fault codes to be found, some caused due to unplugging stuff for testing were cleared out prior to that Auto-Scan.
Looking at live data in the ECM for the Terminal 50 signal (starter), it doesn't change when key is in crank position, as such, the ECM has no reason to operate the 2 starter relays.
Looking at the wiring diagram, a simple ignition switch.
T10/4 is the Terminal 50 signal coming out electrical part of the ignition switch and it does have power when key is in the crank position. This wire runs to the ECM T99/44 and there is no power there when the key is in the crank position... seems to be a wiring failure and we are maybe 15 minutes into the phone call. The tech back probes T99/44 and hotwires it to B+, engine cranks and fires up.
So the good news, a broken wire... the bad news... have fun finding that. The call ends at 10:48 AM.
11:20 AM, this other shop calls back, found the issue... it seems that maybe the owner the car move the steering wheel in/out a lot, to the point the wiring was cracking apart... and the wire that carried the Terminal 50 signal to the ECM was open circuit:
A concern is that this might become a bit of an "common" issue as these cars get older, not a good sign that soo many wires have cracking insulation all at the same area.
I'm a bit ... confused... as to why the first shop didn't look to see if the ECM was getting a Terminal 50 signal... but instead dropped in a $1000 ECM (plus labor and diag time)... and then wanted to toss a $250 starter (plus labor) at it.
I would guess the owner of the car is going to be "thrilled" to find out the car just needed $30 worth of crimp connectors plus labor to fix the no crank issue.
