Golf V variant 1.6 BSE 5 speed to 6 speed gearbox.

[vaskoto1]

Hello everyone. Haven't been around here for a while. Long story.
Of course it is not question of if I'll be back, but when... Well the moment came to ask again the collective (and single) wisdom to solve a pickle.
Thing is I sold my old warrior 1992 Passat and jumped on 2009 golf V avant (mexican made) 1.6 102PS BSE with 5 speed gearbox. The car is in amazing condition! I couldn't believe mu luck with it. Initially I thought the odometer was rolled back significantly, since it was showing only 127some t.km. but the moment I started pulling off it original parts I was a believer! (When I saw her face... ) Fuel filter with manufacturing date 08.2008. water pump 44th week 2008... very ground down front rotors with VW/Audi logo, Mexico and min.th. in inches... I mean-come on!
And since this is my usual self (nail in a bag) I decided, after only 2k kilometers on it that this gearbox is annoyingly short and this car definitely can use 6th gear.
Then it started to get complicated...
It was almost two months now in research what will do as a swap... I'm starting to miss the good old days when you could slap any ol'gearbox to anything and it was fine... apparently not anymore..
So all of the digging done led me to a very similar gearbox to mine, practically identical up to 5th.
Good people told me of possible issues with the engine brain if the ratios of the original and the swap differ significantly, so this stuck to the back of my head. After almost giving up the whole idea I finally noticed ( duh!) that engine brain can be coded to 6 speed manual! Oh joy! But short lived...
For some reason the ECU tells me the request is out of range...
And here is the reason for this excessively long post...
WHY!!?
So sorry if I bored you to death but I would really like to know is this swap going to be such big of a deal as certain sources tried (and succeeded) to scare me, and if so how can I tell the ECU it runs with 6th gear from now on... Mind you, again, my original gearbox is JHT and as a replacement I have found HBM. Both are 02T trannys, Both are practically the same.
Here is an autoscan if it will help somehow...

Wednesday,19,February,2025,17:16:41:50573
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ9M314949   License Plate:


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 37 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ9M314949   Mileage: 129410km-80411miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-033-BGU.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 033 GG
   Component: SIMOS71 1.6l 2VG    1025 
   Revision: --H04---    Serial number: VWXBZ0J0034782
   Coding: 0004071
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6A8DC58CF073B18AE1F-803E
   VINID: 9E69EAAAA05BA8974304424424E8DD9D17

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 CD    HW: 1K0 907 379 AD
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H35 0120 
   Revision: 00H35001   
   Coding: 113B200D092300FE881404E8902200403000
   Shop #: WSC 04532 002 1048576
   VCID: 76B5E1FCB8CB656A757-8022

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 820 047 JE    HW: 1K0 820 047 JE
   Component: Climatic PQ35   143 1313 
   Revision: 00143033    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 70B9D7E4D6AF4B5AAFB-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C8 937 049 E    HW: 3C8 937 049 E
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2602 
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000001146248
   Coding: 118C83170004100F000F00001C00000000196F0E1900010C000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
   VCID: 333318E8E7393042929-8066

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 140109 021  0501 
   Coding: 00038805
   Shop #: WSC 00066 

1 Fault Found:
02092 - Enabling Heated Seat
            009 - Open or Short to Ground
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101001
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 205
                    Mileage: 129415 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 12.40 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 T    HW: 1K0 909 605 T
   Component: 5P AIRBAG VW8   020 2300 
   Revision: 05020000    Serial number: 0038PD29319U 
   Coding: 0013648
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3D273ED0D17DF63274D-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME4244383BA

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME434616220

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME1A4965248

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME1B2C2C019

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BP    HW: 1K0 953 549 BP
   Component: J0527           051 0101 
   Coding: 0003042
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 015F8220ED0552D2505-8054

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           002 0010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 864 A    HW: 1K0 920 864 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT YJU 4005 
   Revision: V0010000    Serial number: VWXBZ0J0034782
   Coding: 0003103
   Shop #: WSC 01360 264 95858
   VCID: 2A0D058C30F3718A21F-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V4.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 S    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway   H07 0071 
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 051108F2000924
   Coding: E9807F06400202002002
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 372B2CF8F341DC62AE1-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 864 A    HW: 1K0 920 864 A
   Component: IMMO YJU            4005 
   Revision: V0010000    Serial number: VWXBZ0J0034782
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2A0D058C30F3718A21F-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 AC    HW: 1K0 959 793 N
   Component: J386  TUER-SG FT    1519 
   Revision: 72009005    Serial number: 00000779189121
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6FBBD498CB9154A2B61-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Part No: 1K0 909 144 E
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 68     2501 
   Revision: 00H15000   
   Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
   VCID: 2C0103943A076FBAD33-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 BT    HW: 1K0 959 433 BT
   Component:    KSG PQ35 G2  020 0204 
   Revision: 00020000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 8090020052834E7E0004840560044F0240FC20
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 03538828F71940C2429-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted    

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted    

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted    

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 AC    HW: 1K0 959 792 N
   Component: J387  TUER-SG BT    1519 
   Revision: 72009005    Serial number: 08102111341002
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 70B9D7E4D6AF4B5AAFB-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 AG    HW: 1K0 959 795 R
   Component: J388   TUER-SG HL   1401 
   Revision: 11006001    Serial number: 00000003737598
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 75B7E6F0A9CD6E727CD-8020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 AG    HW: 1K0 959 794 R
   Component: J389   TUER-SG HR   1401 
   Revision: 11006001    Serial number: 00000003752328
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 76B5E1FCB4CB656A757-8022

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:10, VBatt start/end: 12.4V/12.4V)-----------

 

[PetrolDave]

Good people told me of possible issues with the engine brain if the ratios of the original and the swap differ significantly, so this stuck to the back of my head. After almost giving up the whole idea I finally noticed ( duh!) that engine brain can be coded to 6 speed manual! Oh joy! But short lived...
For some reason the ECU tells me the request is out of range...
And here is the reason for this excessively long post...
WHY!!?

You'll have to ask the software guys at VAG that, it's actually pretty common that you need to flash a different ECU software version when changing gearbox type - e speed manual, 6 speed manual or DSG.

 

[Uwe]

I'm starting to miss the good old days when you could slap any ol'gearbox to anything and it was fine... apparently not anymore..

Yes, sadly we are well beyond the point where just because a part fits mechanically means it will work properly.

After almost giving up the whole idea I finally noticed ( duh!) that engine brain can be coded to 6 speed manual! Oh joy! But short lived...
For some reason the ECU tells me the request is out of range...

Many ECUs have transmission-specific software in them and won't accept coding for a different type of transmission.

But.. I don't any fault codes in your ECU...?

With different/more manual trans ratios, the biggest problem with a "wrong" transmission is that cruise control won't work.

-Uwe-

 

[vaskoto1]

Well, @Uwe there aren't any codes yet (I hope strongly there will be none. Ever!) because the "new" tranny is still in the trunk... waiting for me to find the time to spread it all over the floor of my garage. I got it for cheap (these things cost insane amounts of money around here!) with a problem, supposedly, in second gear which I am still to address... But, again, being me I'm trying to do my due diligence and thus avoid meaningless physical efforts... Being over certain age this is increasingly imperative activity... So for the time being I'm still poking at the possible problems from all sides and hope this project, so to say, will not bite me in the rear at some later stage...

Here's the deal, visualized:

JHT – original MQ200 02T

Assignment: Engine 1.6 ltr./75 kW

Ratio:

Final drive 68 : 15 = 4,533


1st gear 38 : 11 = 3,455

2nd gear 43 : 22 = 1,955

3rd gear 41 : 32 = 1,281

4th gear 39 : 40 = 0,975

5th gear 39 : 48 = 0,813

HBM, GVV and GMW are the same exchange replacement part number 0AG 300 040 EX

1 38:11 = 3.455
2 43:22 = 1.95
3 41:32 = 1.28
4 39:40 = 0.975
4 39:48 = 0.813
6 36:51 = 0.706
FD 68 : 15 = 4.533

Bell-housings look exactly the same, so it will fit mechanically... I am still at a loss in this particular case what is the effing difference if all 5 are identical?

 

[Uwe]

there aren't any codes yet (I hope strongly there will be none. Ever!) because the "new" tranny is still in the trunk..

Oh. My misunderstanding.

Bell-housings look exactly the same, so it will fit mechanically... I am still at a loss it this particular case what is the effing difference if all 5 are identical?

My guess is it will be fine. The ECU won't know the difference until you shift to 6th. I do not know whether it will set a fault code then. If it has cruise control, it most likely won't work in 6th.

-Uwe-

 

[vaskoto1]

I still can't figure out how this is going to jam the cruise control? The revvs drop to a certain, relatively constant speed? I just don't get this! Why..? Why overcomplicate simple things, why?!!

 

[Uwe]

I still can't figure out how this is going to jam the cruise control?

The ECU has a table in it that correlates engine speed to road speed and will turn off cruise if if the ratio doesn't match what it expects. This is a common problem for people who install different transmissions, or even just a different top gear (typically a taller one) in their existing transmission.

-Uwe-

 

[vaskoto1]

Ok, but back to the main question... How to make the stupid thing get my request IN range? And is it even possible? There is an option put there in the coding, unless something generic comes out as an option and it doesn't mean it's active.... Definitely don't wanna remap and do all kinds of stupid things...

 

[2kaa52]

I dont think there is a 6 Speed SW Version for BSE engine

 

[LeBron]

Interesting post. I am not help yet, just trying to leach some information for myself at this time. But with success, I can contribute to similar situations with knowledge. I start with question. Is there an example of a successful manual swap on the forum for any model/year? I am beginning to purchase parts for a swap from 09G JUD to 02Q KZS (or very similar). Will splice current harnesses as needed. Reading this post, I am wondering if ECU will allow proper coding other than coding out the current gearbox control module. Examples are very nice to have.

 

[Uwe]

I am wondering if ECU will allow proper coding other than coding out the current gearbox control module.

Assuming the car & engine you have were sold with the transmission you are installing, worst case is you'll need to find someone to flash the manual transmission software into your ECU.

The problem for the OP is that his 1.6L BSE engine was never paired with a 6-speed from the factory, so there's no appropriate software to be found for his ECU.

-Uwe-

 

[LeBron]

Assuming the car & engine you have were sold with the transmission you are installing, worst case is you'll need to find someone to flash the manual transmission software into your ECU.

The problem for the OP is that his 1.6L BSE engine was never paired with a 6-speed from the factory, so there's no appropriate software to be found for his ECU.

-Uwe-

Not sure if to move this to another post, but Uwe, except for just making the connections as indicated in the wiring diagram for my 08 2.0 TFSI Passat with the configuration below and recoding the ECM, and any other Modules that reference the Automatic Transmission, is there a way to know ahead of time from the information accessible with VCDS to know if my ECM already contains the manual transmission software?

VIN WVWEK73C28P051615
Address 01
SW 3C0 907 115 S
HW 8P0 907 115 B
Component 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Coding 0404010A19070160

 

[Uwe]

is there a way to know ahead of time from the information accessible with VCDS to know if my ECM already contains the manual transmission software?

Not directly that I am aware of.

You could do a search like this and see if any of the scans show this ECU software being used with a manual trans (i.e. no 02-Auto Trans in the Gateway list or body of the scan).
https://duckduckgo.com/?q="3C0+907+115+S"+VCDS

There are also ways to dig into a parts catalog like Partslink24 to see if that part number was used in manual trans cars.

-Uwe-

 

[LeBron]

Not directly that I am aware of.

You could do a search like this and see if any of the scans show this ECU software being used with a manual trans (i.e. no 02-Auto Trans in the Gateway list or body of the scan).
https://duckduckgo.com/?q="3C0+907+115+S"+VCDS

There are also ways to dig into a parts catalog like Partslink24 to see if that part number was used in manual trans cars.

-Uwe-

Uwe,
Just wanted to thank you for the information guiding me to Partslink. I don't have the answer on whether I will need to have my ECU software will work with manual transmission yet, but found a lot of other answers on things I needed for the switch. Still loving VCDS and wouldn't be as brave as to try things like this manual swap and many other things without it.