Just trying to understand extent of problem 2012 Jetta

[rongee]

Hi, I'm helping a family member with their 2012 VW Jetta (about 169,000 miles). There's been a check engine light on for awhile with a couple of attempts to have it repaired, with it always returning. I used to work on cars as a hobbyist back in the day, but it's been a long long time (long enough ago that working on cars meant carburetors and distributor timing). I'm just helping them decide if the car is worth repairing or if its time to look elsewhere. Given the cost of new/used, if the car can be repaired, that's great. And so, I invested in VCDS not so much because I'd do the repairs myself, but to understand what's going on and perhaps get some guidance from those a lot more knowledgeable than me as to what we might do.

I know that the forum folks are here to help, and so just wondering what's the best way to do that. I don't mind doing the homework, but I'm not sure where to start. I've attached VCDS to the car, and using the doc Ross-Tech provides, ran an Auto-scan. I have that data in print and in the log file.

The symptoms at this point.......Car cranks more than normal in starting, idles badly, with lights flickering in unison with the engine sounds. (And this will be stupid, but the sound is kind of a "brrrooom, brrrooom, brrrooom" cycling maybe twice a second or so. Acceleration is not very good. The driver reports that the car doesn't seem to "like" running at highway speeds (yeah, I know, sorry). I've read that these symptoms might match up to a bad throttle body, perhaps? There were 8 fault codes for the engine (and 1 for the transmission).

Thanks for any guidance you might be able to provide.

 

[stefdds]

And so, I invested in VCDS not so much because I'd do the repairs myself, but to understand what's going on and perhaps get some guidance from those a lot more knowledgeable than me as to what we might do.

Great! Please post a complete Auto-Scan ; and the forum will advise from there.

Sticky - How to post an Auto-Scan

Using the classic, Windows-based VCDS: Also, please wrap your Auto-Scan data in CODE tags, like this: Chassis Type: 4G0 Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 0E 10 13 15 16 17 19 28 36 3B 3C 42 44 46 47 52 53 55 56 5F 62 72 82 84 85 8B 8E 8F 90 VIN: WAUBGAFC5CN015352 01-Engine -- Status: OK...

forums.ross-tech.com

Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour - Main Screen

 

[rongee]

Here is the data from the scan that I ran just awhile ago..... Thanks a lot

Saturday,08,February,2025,11:51:35:52287
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.5
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 3VWDP7AJ1CM411290   License Plate: JEN 001
Mileage: 272940km-169597mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: AJ-VW36 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 17 19 25 2E 56 77

VIN: 3VWDP7AJ1CM411290   Mileage: 272940km-169597miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CBU)       Labels: 07K-906-055-CBT.clb
   Part No SW: 07K 906 055 CJ    HW: 07K 907 309 B
   Component: 2,5l R5/4V      G01 3691 
   Revision: T4H06---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000075
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 78AE37519EDF883A67B-802C
   VINID: 0E69D480745A053744041089005F941641

8 Faults Found:
000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
               P0016 - 000 - Incorrect Correlation - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 266751 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 11:31:45

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 714 /min
                    Load: 23.9 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 68.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
               P0106 - 000 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 4
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 266802 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 20:09:05

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1772 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 69.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 85.0°C
                    Temperature: 3.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
               P0300 - 000 -  - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 17
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 268154 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 15:26:39

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 3867 /min
                    Load: 99.6 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 85.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

000770 - Cylinder 2
               P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 14
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 268154 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 15:26:39

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 3867 /min
                    Load: 99.6 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 85.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

000771 - Cylinder 3
               P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 268154 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 15:26:40

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 3865 /min
                    Load: 93.7 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 85.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000773 - Cylinder 5
               P0305 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 12
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 270952 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 11:34:28

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2408 /min
                    Load: 78.0 %
                    Speed: 30.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 22.0°C
                    Temperature: 11.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.478 V

000769 - Cylinder 1
               P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 10
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 270952 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 11:34:28

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2408 /min
                    Load: 78.0 %
                    Speed: 30.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 22.0°C
                    Temperature: 11.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.478 V

000772 - Cylinder 4
               P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 8
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 271291 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 13:09:45

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1865 /min
                    Load: 77.2 %
                    Speed: 20.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 27.0°C
                    Temperature: 15.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V

Readiness: 1000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
   Part No SW: 09G 927 750 LF    HW: 09G 927 750 LF
   Component: AQ 250 6F           1914 
   Revision: 00H90000    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000840
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 005E5FB1C60FC0FA5FB-8054

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 4
                    Reset counter: 201
                    Mileage: 175529 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.06.12.
                    Time: 14:59:41


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BL    HW: 1K0 907 379 BL
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H31 0152 
   Revision: 00H31001   
   Coding: B14B400C492308FB8D0D02ED92191061A71000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 7DA02645BDFDAD1234D-8028

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 22
                    Reset counter: 82
                    Mileage: 261965 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 16:38:43

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 32768
                    Count: 4608
                    Count: 8193
                    Count: 50433
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 512
                    Count: 0

02214 - Tire Pressure Warning
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 4
                    Mileage: 249329 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.07.02.
                    Time: 09:25:10

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 32768
                    Count: 12800
                    Count: 16401
                    Count: 50688
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 65533
                    Count: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 5C0-820-047.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 820 047 AQ    HW: 5C0 820 047 AQ
   Component: J301  Klimaanlage   0203 
   Revision: 2001010S    Serial number: 00000000922644
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6FBC0C0DEB91CF82B61-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 6R0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 937 087 E    HW: 5C0 937 087 A
   Component: BCM25 JLB H3  H66 0256 
   Revision: B2066001    Serial number: 04371121120796
   Coding: 7B994B9A08AB0B0008382000240884C500C2502E60000000300000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2F3CCC0D27118F82F61-807A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 AF    HW: 6R0 959 801 AF  Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  004 3464
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 820000

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 AF    HW: 6R0 959 802 AF  Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  004 3464
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 820000

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 591     HW: 5K0 959 591
   Component: J245 PS41.022  H09 0007
   Serial number:     WRH0004UKVC     
   Coding: 180000

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 542 A    HW: 5K0 959 542 A
   Component: E221__MFL-TAS  H09 0013
   Serial number: 0210878             
   Coding: 020000

   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 811 H    HW: 6R0 959 811 H
   Component: J388__TSG_HL  004 3464
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 800000

   Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 812 H    HW: 6R0 959 812 H
   Component: J389__TSG_HR  004 3464
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 E    HW: 5C0 959 655 E
   Component: AirbagVW10G   014 0808 
   Serial number: 003GTM060E37   Dataset Number: 160003v____ 0154
   Coding: 00003936
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01023
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
   VCID: 3436C361CEB7AC5A8B3-8060

   Seat occupied recognition:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5C6 959 339 A    HW: 5C6 959 339 A
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H10 0045
   Serial number: 6940000Y120000E3380+
   Coding: 303036

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H01 ----
   Serial number: 3572MSME2965316BZZZ-

   Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H01 ----
   Serial number: 3582MSME1D27356CZZZ0

   Rear Side Airbag Crash Sensor (on driver's side):
   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  H02 ----
   Serial number: 3516KSME3A0E6D19ZZZ2

   Passenger side rear thorax airbag crash sensor:
   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  H02 ----
   Serial number: 3526KSME115C0819ZZZR

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side:
   Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Fahr  H02 ----
   Serial number: 3556LSME34165F17ZZZ-

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side:
   Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Beif  H02 ----
   Serial number: 3566LSME1A0F5F17ZZZ6

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 5C6 920 951 B    HW: 5C6 920 951 B
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0604 
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 270201
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00122
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04114
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
   VCID: 2A0ADD191C73EAAA21F-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
   Part No SW: 6N0 909 901     HW: 5C0 937 087 A
   Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H66 0256 
   Revision: B2066001   
   Coding: 102200
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 70BE0F71FAAFD07AAFB-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234
   Component: IMMO          H04 0604 
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03009
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW23.rod
   VCID: 6A8A1D19DCF32AAAE1F-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels:. 5N0-035-342.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 E    HW: 5N0 035 342 E
   Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0240 
   Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7661187073   
   Coding: 010000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2908221519F5E1B2285-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 180 AE    HW: 1K0 035 180 AE
   Component: Radio Prem-8  H02 0016 
   Revision: -----16S    Serial number: VWZ4Z7M3290024
   Coding: 01000400020006
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6394703D3B597BE2229-8036

1 Fault Found:
02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated
            000 - -
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 7
                    Fault Frequency: 7
                    Reset counter: 221
                    Mileage: 205065 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.10.18.
                    Time: 00:41:44


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels:| 7P6-035-730.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 035 730 E    HW: 5K0 035 730 E
   Component: TELEFON       H09 2902 
   Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007662078962 Dataset Number: 5K0035730E  0001
   Coding: 0A10040000010110
   Shop #: WSC 01383 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVNA A01719
   ROD: UHVNA.rod
   VCID: 270C242D0F61D7C23E1-8072

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:27, VBatt start/end: 13.8V/13.8V)-----------

 

[Dr Sheldon]

000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)

That is indicating that Valve timing is out !!

Check that first !

Is this chain or belt driven ??

 

[Uwe]

Biggest issue is the P0016 fault. I suspect that's a problem with the timing chains and or tensioner(s).

-Uwe-

 

[rongee]

That is indicating that Valve timing is out !!

Check that first !

Is this chain or belt dr

I believe that this engine has a timing chain, although I'm not 100% sure about that. Looking back through the repair records we've found, it doesn't look like it's ever been replaced or worked on and we're at about 170,000 miles.

It looks like, in trying to fix the misfire problem, a previous mechanic replaced the spark plugs.

We've got an appointment at the local VW dealership Monday morning.

 

[rongee]

Biggest issue is the P0016 fault. I suspect that's a problem with the timing chains and or tensioner(s).

-Uwe-

From the repair records we found, it doesn't look like the timing chain has been worked on, and we're at about 170,000 miles.

Biggest issue is the P0016 fault. I suspect that's a problem with the timing chains and or tensioner(s).

-Uwe-

Any thoughts on what that might mean in terms of repairs?

 

[Uwe]

Is this chain or belt driven ??

I am 99.4% confident it's a chain.

-Uwe-

 

[Uwe]

Any thoughts on what that might mean in terms of repairs?

Depends what it needs. Might be just a tensioner that's accessible externally. If it needs chains & guides, that gets expensive fast, mostly due to the labor involved. Thing is, these 2.5s are not known for eating chains or guides.

-Uwe-

 

[Dr Sheldon]

We've got an appointment at the local VW dealership Monday morning.

Mileage: 272940km-169597mi

Granted that all dealers are not the same however I would say that the dealer is possibly not the best place for that car, that age, that mileage !!

I have done my rounds at many dealers ! Either working, as a contractor and have enough technician friends dotted about - And we talk !!


I suspect that they will charge you ~an hour for diagnosis, they will run a scan on the car, GFF will guide them to a teardown and new chain(s) and everything associated including Oil, Filter & Coolant at proper money !!

The money is in Servicing and Brakes not heavy mechanical like this. Dealer overheads are Eyewatering !!

The idea being that they dont want that job and will price it at a point where you will walk - if they are really good then the business model would be to offer scrap money for your car and stick a new car up your shirt with all the insurances etc. Everyone is happy !!


Your car, Your Drama, Your Money but I would look for a good reputable independent to do that.

 

[rongee]

Granted that all dealers are not the same however I would say that the dealer is possibly not the best place for that car, that age, that mileage !!

I have done my rounds at many dealers ! Either working, as a contractor and have enough technician friends dotted about - And we talk !!


I suspect that they will charge you ~an hour for diagnosis, they will run a scan on the car, GFF will guide them to a teardown and new chain(s) and everything associated including Oil, Filter & Coolant at proper money !!

The money is in Servicing and Brakes not heavy mechanical like this. Dealer overheads are Eyewatering !!

The idea being that they dont want that job and will price it at a point where you will walk - if they are really good then the business model would be to offer scrap money for your car and stick a new car up your shirt with all the insurances etc. Everyone is happy !!


Your car, Your Drama, Your Money but I would look for a good reputable independent to do that.

Thanks for that guidance. I think what I'm going to do is have VW do a diagnosis and then provide an estimate as to the cost. If it's not too outrageous, I'll let them do it, but if not, I'll shop around for another mechanic. I'll provide an update on what they have to say.

 

[rongee]

Okay, so the results from today's visit to VW.

According to VW.......The timing chain is stretched enough that it needs to be replaced. In addition, there is some sort of damage to the camshaft, something about it not being seated properlym with some sort of "gunk" on it. Long story short, their recommendation is to either repair everything that needs repairing, at about $8500, or replace the engine at $6700. The engine is used, has 94K miles on it. It would come with a 12 month, 12K mile warranty. So basically replace a 169K mile engine with a 94K mile engine.

What we noodling about right now is whether to put that $6700 into a replacement engine, or put that money towards a different car. We've been primarily a Honda/Toyota family for quite awhile, and what's being thought about is maybe spending $10K on a used Honda/Toyota instead, or a VW if my daughter prefers the VWs.

 

[Uwe]

there is some sort of damage to the camshaft,

Which one? That engine has two camshafts.

If it was mine, I would get a second opinion from an independent mechanic, preferably one that specializes in VW/Audi.

-Uwe-