Engine Performance Issue

   #1  

Workingonit4

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I am experiencing performance issues with my 2005 VW Passat (VIN WVWAD63B15E065779). It has symptoms at two different Engine Speed Levels; One, just after cold start, while trying to accelerate, it stumbles to the point of very slowly picking up speed. This symptom tends to diminish as the engine warms up but is always there. The other (latest) symptom is not dependent upon engine temperature. It will stumble, loose speed, misfire, within the approximate range of 2000 to 3000 RPM. The only way to get acceleration is to downshift to get the engine speed above 3000 RPM range. Then, it will accelerate like nothing is wrong, until it shifts back up into the 2000 to 3000 RPM range again. If you are careful with the throttle, it will maintain the 65mph until you encounter a hill or other obstacle requiring additional acceleration. I have spent some time recording parameters in VCDS in attempt to detect any abnormalities which, with my limited experience with what normal parameters look like, has been fairly time consuming. However, I believe I may have found something that could help you help me continue fix this issue.

While monitoring Engine Speed (Actual) and Engine Speed (Specified), I am noticing that Engine Speed (Specified) will not keep up with Engine Speed (Actual). In fact, Engine Speed (Specified) plateaus out while Engine Speed (Actual) continues to rise with actual RPM. It would seem that this is not normal. But I have not been able to determine what may be causing it. I keep looking at things like accelerator position and throttle valve angle supposing that these would be tied to engine speed demand but have not noticed any smoking guns yet. Please help by sharing your insight. Thank you.
 
   #2  

Dr Sheldon

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Can we have the privilege of the compulsory Autoscan please ?
 
   #4  

Crasher

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I would change the G28 engine speed sensor, they often don't leave a fault code, revised part number 071 957 147

28de624d8adb0845251a22faf8ac04daea3fe60a.jpg
 
   #5  

Workingonit4

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Can we have the privilege of the compulsory Autoscan please ?

I am experiencing performance issues with my 2005 VW Passat (VIN WVWAD63B15E065779). It has symptoms at two different Engine Speed Levels; One, just after cold start, while trying to accelerate, it stumbles to the point of very slowly picking up speed. This symptom tends to diminish as the engine warms up but is always there. The other (latest) symptom is not dependent upon engine temperature. It will stumble, loose speed, misfire, within the approximate range of 2000 to 3000 RPM. The only way to get acceleration is to downshift to get the engine speed above 3000 RPM range. Then, it will accelerate like nothing is wrong, until it shifts back up into the 2000 to 3000 RPM range again. If you are careful with the throttle, it will maintain the 65mph until you encounter a hill or other obstacle requiring additional acceleration. I have spent some time recording parameters in VCDS in attempt to detect any abnormalities which, with my limited experience with what normal parameters look like, has been fairly time consuming. However, I believe I may have found something that could help you help me continue fix this issue.

While monitoring Engine Speed (Actual) and Engine Speed (Specified), I am noticing that Engine Speed (Specified) will not keep up with Engine Speed (Actual). In fact, Engine Speed (Specified) plateaus out while Engine Speed (Actual) continues to rise with actual RPM. It would seem that this is not normal. But I have not been able to determine what may be causing it. I keep looking at things like accelerator position and throttle valve angle supposing that these would be tied to engine speed demand but have not noticed any smoking guns yet. Please help by sharing your insight. Thank you.
Code:
Thursday,16,January,2025,06:57:31:26248
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWAD63B15E065779   License Plate:


Chassis Type: 3B (3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77
        
 
VIN: WVWAD63B15E065779   Mileage: 315380km-195968miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06B-906-018-AWM.clb
   Part No SW: 4B0 906 018 DQ    HW:             
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0060 
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0385074
   Coding: 0016551
   Shop #: WSC 02405 444 84569
   VCID: 73B3D10467A34012529-5160
   VINID: 9E69D15060D20455401851C724CD74DF6F

8 Faults Found:
17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2
            P1118 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
            P1128 - 001 - System too Lean
16555 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
            P0171 - 001 - System Too Lean
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
            P0300 - 008 -  - MIL ON
16685 - Cylinder 1
            P0301 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
            P0303 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16688 - Cylinder 4
            P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
            P0302 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 3B0 927 156 CA
   Component: AG5 01V 1.8l5VT USA 0405 
   Coding: 0001104
   Shop #: WSC 05311 000 00000
   VCID: 678BB554237BBCB2FE1-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 4B0-614-517.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 614 517 G
   Component: ABS/ESP front       3428 
   Coding: 04277
   Shop #: WSC 02405 
   VCID: 2517FF5C9CF76EA20CD-51F2

5 Faults Found:
00290 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Rear Left (G46)
            30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
00283 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Left  (G47)
            30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00285 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Right (G45)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal
00597 - Wheel Speed Impulses; Deviation
            35-10 - - - Intermittent
01435 - Brake Pressure Sensor 1 (G201)
            57-00 - Electric Circuit Failure

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 C
   Component: 09 AIRBAG VW61 04   0003 
   Coding: 12345
   Shop #: WSC 05311 
   VCID: 2411E25897CD97AA1B3-513C

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 3B0 920 929 B
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07 
   Coding: 15235
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 2615F850E1F165BA057-513C
   WVWAD63B15E065779     VWZ7Z0D0385074

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001 
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 05311 
   VCID: 70B9DE0813B57B0AAFB-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 08 Komfortgerát HLO 0004 
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 05311 
   VCID: 372B2514365BEC32AE1-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202 

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202 

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202 

1 Fault Found:
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 3B7 035 180 G
   Component:    Radio PM6        0016 
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 05311 
   VCID: 2411E25897CD97AA1B3-513C

1 Fault Found:
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
            37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent

End----(Elapsed Time: 04:34, VBatt start/end: 11.8V/11.8V. VIgn 11.7V)-----

I apologize for the the delayed response and not posting the Auto Scan in the first place.

In the recent past, I have encountered these issues:
Randomly, will not restart in warm weather after driving, then, sitting for a few minutes...replaced crankshaft sensor (on two separate occasions, with significant miles and time between)
Replaced the air pump....No noticeable symptoms or improvements
Randomly, will not restart in warm weather after driving, then, sitting for a few minutes...replaced camshaft sensor
Boost operation is very intermittent and seldom
Will start and run for 15 seconds in cold weather, then, will idle very rough and die continuously. After numerous attempts, provided that no acceleration is attempted, it will continue to idle until warmed up. Then, the performance issues at the beginning of this thread occur ... Cleaned the throttle valve with sensor-safe throttle body cleaner and replaced coolant temperature sensor and air charge temperature sensor...Now, engine will start and idle continuously without issue. However, the symptoms at the beginning of this thread occur. However, boost appears to be functioning again.
 
   #6  

Dr Sheldon

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Replacing parts with no conclusive evidence that they have failed is, or should be, a shooting offence !!

Put the old bits back on and seek a better diagnostic approach.
 
   #7  

Workingonit4

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Code:
Thursday,16,January,2025,06:57:31:26248
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWAD63B15E065779   License Plate:


Chassis Type: 3B (3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77
       
 
VIN: WVWAD63B15E065779   Mileage: 315380km-195968miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06B-906-018-AWM.clb
   Part No SW: 4B0 906 018 DQ    HW:            
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0060
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0385074
   Coding: 0016551
   Shop #: WSC 02405 444 84569
   VCID: 73B3D10467A34012529-5160
   VINID: 9E69D15060D20455401851C724CD74DF6F

8 Faults Found:
17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2
            P1118 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
            P1128 - 001 - System too Lean
16555 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
            P0171 - 001 - System Too Lean
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
            P0300 - 008 -  - MIL ON
16685 - Cylinder 1
            P0301 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
            P0303 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16688 - Cylinder 4
            P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
            P0302 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 3B0 927 156 CA
   Component: AG5 01V 1.8l5VT USA 0405
   Coding: 0001104
   Shop #: WSC 05311 000 00000
   VCID: 678BB554237BBCB2FE1-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 4B0-614-517.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 614 517 G
   Component: ABS/ESP front       3428
   Coding: 04277
   Shop #: WSC 02405
   VCID: 2517FF5C9CF76EA20CD-51F2

5 Faults Found:
00290 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Rear Left (G46)
            30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
00283 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Left  (G47)
            30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00285 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Front Right (G45)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal
00597 - Wheel Speed Impulses; Deviation
            35-10 - - - Intermittent
01435 - Brake Pressure Sensor 1 (G201)
            57-00 - Electric Circuit Failure

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 C
   Component: 09 AIRBAG VW61 04   0003
   Coding: 12345
   Shop #: WSC 05311
   VCID: 2411E25897CD97AA1B3-513C

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 3B0 920 929 B
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07
   Coding: 15235
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 2615F850E1F165BA057-513C
   WVWAD63B15E065779     VWZ7Z0D0385074

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 05311
   VCID: 70B9DE0813B57B0AAFB-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 08 Komfortgerát HLO 0004
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 05311
   VCID: 372B2514365BEC32AE1-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812
   Component: 08 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202

1 Fault Found:
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 3B7 035 180 G
   Component:    Radio PM6        0016
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 05311
   VCID: 2411E25897CD97AA1B3-513C

1 Fault Found:
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
            37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent

End----(Elapsed Time: 04:34, VBatt start/end: 11.8V/11.8V. VIgn 11.7V)-----

I apologize for the the delayed response and not posting the Auto Scan in the first place.

In the recent past, I have encountered these issues:
Randomly, will not restart in warm weather after driving, then, sitting for a few minutes...replaced crankshaft sensor (on two separate occasions, with significant miles and time between)
Replaced the air pump....No noticeable symptoms or improvements
Randomly, will not restart in warm weather after driving, then, sitting for a few minutes...replaced camshaft sensor
Boost operation is very intermittent and seldom
Will start and run for 15 seconds in cold weather, then, will idle very rough and die continuously. After numerous attempts, provided that no acceleration is attempted, it will continue to idle until warmed up. Then, the performance issues at the beginning of this thread occur ... Cleaned the throttle valve with sensor-safe throttle body cleaner and replaced coolant temperature sensor and air charge temperature sensor...Now, engine will start and idle continuously without issue. However, the symptoms at the beginning of this thread occur. However, boost appears to be functioning again.
I meant to also add the trend showing the Engine Speed (specified) plateau while Engine Speed (actual) follows the tachometer readings. I am not seeing a way of attaching a Word document showing a picture of the trend. Essentially, I am looking for direction to the source of Engine Speed (specified). I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you.
 
   #8  

Crasher

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Specified is in the map.
 
   #9  

Workingonit4

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Replacing parts with no conclusive evidence that they have failed is, or should be, a shooting offence !!

Put the old bits back on and seek a better diagnostic approach.

Replacing parts with no conclusive evidence that they have failed is, or should be, a shooting offence !!

Put the old bits back on and seek a better diagnostic approach.
I agree with you. Replacing parts without confirming they were bad in the first place goes against my nature. Intermittent issues are a struggle, at best, to identify; forcing many people to do so. Including myself I guess. Meanwhile, I still have not found an answer why Engine Speed (specified) tops out at 1450 rpm and/or what derives that signal. So, here i am again, forced to replace parts until I find the issue.
 
   #10  

Dr Sheldon

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So, here i am again, forced to replace parts until I find the issue.
Oh Dear and Oh NO !!


I have a Methodology. Serves me well !!

Example:

I have a car and I suspect and convince my self it needs a G28 Crank Sensor.

1. I will price up the Crank Sensor and ask my dealer about availability.

2. I will ask myself a question:
What will i do when the Genuine New Pristine G28 is fitted and the fault is not cured !! I will make a list with a pen on paper - A long list !!


3. I will go through that list and do all the tests / things on that list !! BEFORE I buy or fit anything !!!


4. When I fit the new G28 and the car is not fixed - I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I have been sold a dud !!




There is No Such Thing as a component that cannot be conclusively tested !! Would never make it to the production Line !
 
   #11  

Workingonit4

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Oh Dear and Oh NO !!


I have a Methodology. Serves me well !!

Example:

I have a car and I suspect and convince my self it needs a G28 Crank Sensor.

1. I will price up the Crank Sensor and ask my dealer about availability.

2. I will ask myself a question:
What will i do when the Genuine New Pristine G28 is fitted and the fault is not cured !! I will make a list with a pen on paper - A long list !!


3. I will go through that list and do all the tests / things on that list !! BEFORE I buy or fit anything !!!


4. When I fit the new G28 and the car is not fixed - I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I have been sold a dud !!




There is No Such Thing as a component that cannot be conclusively tested !! Would never make it to the production Line !Okay

Oh Dear and Oh NO !!


I have a Methodology. Serves me well !!

Example:

I have a car and I suspect and convince my self it needs a G28 Crank Sensor.

1. I will price up the Crank Sensor and ask my dealer about availability.

2. I will ask myself a question:
What will i do when the Genuine New Pristine G28 is fitted and the fault is not cured !! I will make a list with a pen on paper - A long list !!


3. I will go through that list and do all the tests / things on that list !! BEFORE I buy or fit anything !!!


4. When I fit the new G28 and the car is not fixed - I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I have been sold a dud !!




There is No Such Thing as a component that cannot be conclusively tested !! Would never make it to the production Line !
Okay! Great! You and I have the same Methodology. I am currently on step 3 of your example. Do you know whether or not the
Oh Dear and Oh NO !!


I have a Methodology. Serves me well !!

Example:

I have a car and I suspect and convince my self it needs a G28 Crank Sensor.

1. I will price up the Crank Sensor and ask my dealer about availability.

2. I will ask myself a question:
What will i do when the Genuine New Pristine G28 is fitted and the fault is not cured !! I will make a list with a pen on paper - A long list !!


3. I will go through that list and do all the tests / things on that list !! BEFORE I buy or fit anything !!!


4. When I fit the new G28 and the car is not fixed - I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I have been sold a dud !!




There is No Such Thing as a component that cannot be conclusively tested !! Would never make it to the production Line !
Okay! Great! You and I have the same Methodology. Given all of the tools and knowledge, there is no excuse for not being able to test each device and, if it still does not function correctly be more certain that I have been sold a dud. However, being in the automotive and control systems field for a major part of my working career, I do know that there isn't anyone that is perfect. Please tell me I am not spending time discussing this with AI. So far I am counting on a Rosstech VCDS and previous knowledge of other vehicles; far from what the manufacturer and their engineering department has. So I am counting on knowledge sharing to become "somewhat" more acquainted with the vehicle and it's systems. I am currently on step 3 of your example. Do you know whether or not the Engine Speed (specified) is supposed to top off at 1450 RPM. If it is, great, then it is working fine. Except, then, I have run out of ideas for what to look for next. Either way, it would be great to find out which component/s of the vehicle supply information to this measurement, whether it is single or multiple inputs enabling the engine control module to decipher it, or a single device that is supplying the raw signal. It seems like it may be too coincidental for this signal topping at 1450 while the engine performance is lacking between ~ 2000 RPM and ~3000 RPM. By lacking, I mean misfiring, lean conditions, not maintaining the power it had; as if there is a fuel proportioning issue that cannot be blamed upon lack of fuel delivery. I have this feeling that I am going to feel like a fool when I discover the issue. If I find out I am discussing this with AI the feeling will come then too.
 
   #12  

Dr Sheldon

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Do you know whether or not the Engine Speed (specified) is supposed to top off at 1450 RPM.
I do not need to know !!

I know from you that these faults are recorded !!
8 Faults Found:
17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2
P1118 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
P1128 - 001 - System too Lean
16555 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1

P0171 - 001 - System Too Lean
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 008 - - MIL ON
16685 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16688 - Cylinder 4
P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 008 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON

Two of which are screaming to be fixed !!

17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2
P1118 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON


A functioning Lambda will be our best friend - Little Snitch !! It is S2 but go fix it anyway !!
 
   #13  

Dr Sheldon

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Okay! Great! You and I have the same Methodology. I am currently on step 3 of your example. Do you know whether or not the

Okay! Great! You and I have the same Methodology. Given all of the tools and knowledge, there is no excuse for not being able to test each device and, if it still does not function correctly be more certain that I have been sold a dud. However, being in the automotive and control systems field for a major part of my working career, I do know that there isn't anyone that is perfect. Please tell me I am not spending time discussing this with AI. So far I am counting on a Rosstech VCDS and previous knowledge of other vehicles; far from what the manufacturer and their engineering department has. So I am counting on knowledge sharing to become "somewhat" more acquainted with the vehicle and it's systems. I am currently on step 3 of your example. Do you know whether or not the Engine Speed (specified) is supposed to top off at 1450 RPM. If it is, great, then it is working fine. Except, then, I have run out of ideas for what to look for next. Either way, it would be great to find out which component/s of the vehicle supply information to this measurement, whether it is single or multiple inputs enabling the engine control module to decipher it, or a single device that is supplying the raw signal. It seems like it may be too coincidental for this signal topping at 1450 while the engine performance is lacking between ~ 2000 RPM and ~3000 RPM. By lacking, I mean misfiring, lean conditions, not maintaining the power it had; as if there is a fuel proportioning issue that cannot be blamed upon lack of fuel delivery. I have this feeling that I am going to feel like a fool when I discover the issue. If I find out I am discussing this with AI the feeling will come then too.


PARAGRAPHS !!!!!
 
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