No communication Lupo 3L, 2002

[HansV]

Dear all, I am at a loss.

I am Hans from the Netherlands and I am quite new to VCDS but I am an enthusiastic mechanic. The project I am working on is to convert my BMW K100 motorcycle into a diesel engine, using the engine from a Lupo 3L.

I already built one (and it got approved ) but when I got the ecu flashed to get rid of the immo, it ran perfectly in the beginning, but the engine did not start anymore after some time. And I found at that point, that there was no communication possible. I used a cheap China-dongle, which initially worked fine. Please notice, that I reduced the wiring harness quite intensely, to get rid of any unwanted systems, like airbag, radio and so on.

Since it did not communicate anymore, I ran into a problem. I already deleted the (unnecessary) wiring from the immo, dash, transmission, airbags and some other stuff, and checked if the engine started at each removal step. But apparently, I am missing something……

So I decided to buy another VW Lupo 3L, from 2002, with the AYZ-engine to get a solid starting point, including the HEX-V2-dongle from Ross-Tech. This new Lupo 3L, which ran when I bought it, won’t communicate either. What I tried to solve it until now:

1. I removed the complete (!) wiring harness from the car, including all the sensors, ecu’s and so on, which was a logical step in the process to convert it to the motorcycle. And I have easy access to any ecu.
2. Made sure both the dongle and the VCDS-software is up to date.
3. The dongle passes the test, though it gives no CAN-communication.
4. Disconnected and reconnected the different ECU’s. No difference.
5. I rewired the K-line to make sure I have a direct connection between the dashboard (which includes the gateway), the immo and the OBD-port. So it’s hard wired with only these three components. Though, when I add the other ecu’s to the K-line, it does not make a difference.
6. Checked the fuses. All okay.
7. Checked the wiring. No strange stuff, though some wires where already cut by the previous owner. But the car ran when I bought it.
8. Pulled the fuses one by one, to see whether the K-line signal changed. No influence.
9. Did the shortage to 12V-test, with the resistor, though I used a 10K. When I add the resistor, the voltage drops to 1.1 V.
10. I checked for shortage to ground and 12V. No problems there. I swapped the dashboard with another unit (which I still had from my previous car), but it made no difference.
11. I noticed the OBD port is only having pin 5 for ground, and not pin 4. Nor is Vign available.
12. I noticed there is no K-line between the engine ecu and the dashboard, only CAN-wiring.
13. I noticed that there is no CAN data visible (with a seperate scope).
14. The VCDS always answers with ‘no response from controller’ and ‘K-line init failed’. The dongle flashed blue when not connected to the OBD-port, turns green and starts flashing green when connected to the port and flashes green/red when I try to reach the Engine ECU. Also, in the AutoScan, it gives ‘No response from gateway’, when I select the Gateway Installation List.
15. I am unsure whether the Lupo requires a can wake up signal, nor do I know whether there is communication possible with a disconnented tranmission ecu.

I am at a loss. Hopefully you can help with tips what to do next.

A screen from the Test result:
[

https://imgur.com/a/Flj4zP7

]

 

[TTT]

German language won't help you here. Check if Vign needs to be battery voltage.

 

[HansV]

My apologies. Indeed, Vign is the ignition voltage. The pin is not in the obd-connector from the car. I understood several (older) cars don't have one.

 

[Sebastian]

Lupo components never had a gatway able to provide an installation list, at best you will get addresses 01 and 17 with the cluster and ecm connected. Try those two and let us know what happens. Generally, diagnostics will never work via CAN on these Lupo components. K-line only.

 

[HansV]

Thanks for the info. They both fail. No response from controller, so I assume it is either a gateway problem, a CAN wake up problem, a Windows 10 problem or a HEX-V2 problem.

 

[Sebastian]

Doubt it. If the cluster is live (i.e. ignition on and displaying etc.), connected via k-line is all it should need if I remember correctly. Certainly not a wake-up issue and not a gateway one either. Unless you get the cluster to talk, anything engine related is pointless. Since this is a make-shift wiring loom, I do think you need to figure this out on your own - nothing we can really do here in my eyes.

 

[HansV]

Thanks for the replay. If I understatement correctly, when I connect the kline from the obd to the kline of the dashboard (the cluster) I should have commun8cation? That"s all? Any settings front vcds, or just default settings?

 

[Sebastian]

Try getting the cluster to work outside of your stuff for reference sake. This should be similar...

 

[HansV]

I will try. But it will take some time...... the default settings in vcds should ve sufficient?

 

[Sebastian]

Unless explicitly noted, never touch any of those settings and leave them at standard values.

 

[Eric]

Did you use the "China-dongle" on the second Lupo? Some of those have out-of-spec OBD2 pins that will enlarge the pins in the OBD2 connector and cause issues for the next scan tool that follows pin-size specifications.

 

[HansV]

Thanks for the tip, and yes I did. I will check the pins for any deformation.

 

[HansV]

Just a short update.....

I ordered some small components to create the 'dashsboard-test-rig' Sebastian asked me to do in the youtube video some posts back. They will arrive in some weeks.......

However, when fuzzling about a little bit, I connected the 'China-dongle' again and to my suprise..... I have communication!! I performed an AutoScan directly, see the results below. After performing the AutoScan, I hooked up the HEX-V2 again. And you will never guess it: No response from controller........

So, a faulty HEX-V2 unit? I am not in a position to check the unit on a different VW/Seat/Audi.......

Do not be too surprised regarding the AutoScan; still some ECU's were disconncted and I assume quite some errors as a result of removing the harness from the car......

 VAG-COM
Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
Version: Release 409.1-US
www.Ross-Tech.com
Dealer/Shop Name:
Workshop Code: 000 00000
Self-Diagnosis Log
Friday, 08 November 2024, 16:40:37
VIN Number: 08-11-2024_xxxxxx License Plate: 48PRJ5
Mileage: Repair Order:
Chassis Type: 6E - VW Lupo 3L
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,19,25,35
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine
Controller: 045 906 019 AE
Component: VAG-Tuning 0001SG .com
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 01233
3 Faults Found:
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from ABS Controller
P1649 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
18047 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1639 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
18056 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1648 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skipping Address 15-Airbags
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments
Controller: 6E0 920 800 J
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT BOO V09
Coding: 00134
Shop #: WSC 00583
7 Faults Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-00 - Open or Short to B+
01039 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
64-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01312 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
37-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01315 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
49-00 - Please Register/Activate
01316 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
49-00 - Please Register/Activate
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications

 

[Eric]

It would still line up perfectly with the China-dongle having embiggened your OBD2 pin 7

 

[Boki Ar]

So, a faulty HEX-V2 unit?

I don't think so. All pins should be checked, especially pin 7 in the OBD socket.

Do you have the conditions to make a simple adapter from an old OBD?

 

[HansV]

I will check again. Though the pins are looking okay, both from the cables and the socket. I already ordered another obd- connector, to make a separate dashboard tester. But it will take some time to arrive.

But still, the pins are looking okay and when I add another ecu, it perfectly communicates. The pins are looking okay and I cannot find a shortcut to either ground or supply.

 

[HansV]

I will try to make sure a have a 100% connection to pin 7 by making a direct hardwired connection. I will keep you updated!

 

[NEtech]

You could also try to disable USB suspend, something like this:

 

[HansV]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your tips and your help!

Another update. I have tried the suggestions above. The USB selective suspend setting makes no difference. I have no communication with the HEX-V2 in both settings and I do have communication with the China-dongle, in both settings.
Then I hardwired pin 5, 7 and 16 to both the HEX-V2 and China-dongle and the result is the same. No communication with HEX-V2, but communication available with the China-dongle. I even pressed a little bit on pin 7, to make 100% sure I have a contact between the wire and the connector. See also the pictures below.

Another point I would like to mention is that it seems VCDS/HEX-V2 never pulls the kline to ground, hence no communication. I checked this with a sepearate scope. Even when I am sure I have contact between the pins and the connector.......
Any tips?

 

[Uwe]

Another point I would like to mention is that it seems VCDS/HEX-V2 never pulls the kline to ground, hence no communication.

Hmm, you should definitely see 200 ms pulses to ground at the start of comms. If not, then you might indeed have defective interference. But it has two K-Lines, and two K-Line drivers. For laughs, can you take pin 7 from the OBD socket to Pin 15 on the HEX-V2 and check again?

-Uwe-