P0087 COME ON UPON ACCELERATION.

[victor35ma]

Hello. Got this AUDI S5 came to shop for a too rich mixture due to oil contaminated with fuel, we replaced the HPFP and now i am dealing with this P0087. I read about a software update related to p0087... I will try to post those TSB. we already did fuel pressure test after reading the Ross Tech wiki and also check residual pressure guided by a Ross Tech video and everything looks okay. Engine runs okay it is just, P0087 comes on after a road test in a freeway. Timing chain looks okay as well. I replaced the HPFP bucket just in case and the cam lobes looks okay.

the rport state if the engine module soft ver is 0005 then i dont need to do this update. What do you guys think could be the case here. should I try to update the module? is it something else...?

Thursday,31,October,2024,14:55:08:23194
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)  HEX-NET CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAULFAFR6EA024129   License Plate:
Mileage: 177230km-110125mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: FR-AU48 (8R0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 08 09 15 16 17 19 36 42 44 46 52 53 56 5F 6C
        

VIN: WAULFAFR6EA024129   Mileage: 177230km-110125miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
06-Seat Mem. Pass -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (DET-CPMB)       Labels:. 06H-907-115-CDN.clb
   Part No SW: 8K5 907 115 N    HW: 8K2 907 115 L
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0005 
   Revision: ECH09---    CVN: FE64ECCA
   Coding: 5A2A0013242600062000
   Shop #: WSC 09518 003 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115N 001006
   ROD: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115N.rod
   VCID: BD325E5A2C2BB47E60-80E8
   VINID: 9D195C5915A219544008404224D3A0C0C8

No fault code found.
Readiness: 1110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217)       Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 927 158 T    HW: 0BK 927 156 AL
   Component: 0BK 20TFSIUSA H16 1005 
   Revision: --H16---    CVN: 1A6EAFCC
   Coding: 000002
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
   ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
   VCID: C7DE3CB27EF7EEAECA-8092

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 8K0-907-379-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 379 CF    HW: 8K0 907 379 CF
   Component: ESP8 quattro  H09 0050 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 2D1D1801
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: FF4E64526EA7666E32-80AA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 HM    HW: 8K0 907 064 GM
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H13 0641 
   Revision: 00002001   
   Coding: 0D804040000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 8248EDA61D550B865D-80D6

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 754 B    HW: 8K0 959 754 B
   Component: FBSAUDIB8 IDG  H71 0083
   Serial number: 0813000124487016   

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 905 852 E    HW: 8K0 905 852 E
   Component: J764 ELV MLB  H40 0046
   Serial number: 0213000298007001   

1 Fault Found:
00955 - Key 1
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 98
                    Mileage: 177235 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.30
                    Time: 18:14:22


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass (J521)       Labels:. 8T0-959-760.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 959 760 E    HW: 8T0 959 760 E
   Component: MEM-BFS       H10 0076 
   Revision: AA000000    Serial number: 00000073375074
   Coding: 08037025002400001000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: C5C236BA4CFBFCBE38-8090

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:. 8Kx-820-043-3Z.clb
   Part No SW: 8K1 820 043 T    HW: 8K1 820 043 T
   Component: KLIMA 3 ZONEN H04 0123 
   Revision: C1000000    Serial number: 01070920131180
   Coding: 6482208000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: B93A4A4A3003885E4C-80EC

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 8K0-907-063.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 063 DH    HW: 8K0 907 063 DH
   Component: BCM1 1.0      H16 0103 
   Revision: 08016001    Serial number: 00000678497902
   Coding: 26000091863CAFE00100488300003D0D0F9CD288A2090221000008004000030100000030000000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: F8BC8F4E4B89515673-80AC

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T1 955 119 D    HW: 8J1 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 020913  H15 0080
   Serial number: SWF13090025927     
   Coding: 00FD11

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8U0 955 559 B    HW: 8U0 955 559 B  Labels: 8U0-955-559.CLB
   Component: G397_RLFS  H06 0002
   Serial number: 21683343           
   Coding: 02005D

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 941 531 AS    HW: 8K0 941 531 AS
   Component: E1 - LDS  H03 0031
   Serial number: 00000000003008130742

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 4G0 907 410 A    HW: 4H0 907 410 A
   Component: USHL4.2  H30 0030
   Serial number: 0000002274555R7HBX03

   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 4H0 907 658     HW: 4H0 907 658
   Component: AQ_Hum_Sensor  H03 0003
   Serial number: 8E3945C6000000000001

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 8K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 655 P    HW: 8K0 959 655 P
   Component: AirbagVW-AU10 H47 0610 
   Serial number: 003KJDB0DN0G   Dataset Number: 8T0909602N  0004
   Coding: 303343334830303030304A55304C38543053
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010 003010
   ROD: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010_003_AU48.rod
   VCID: CAD805866DE513C6D5-809E

   Seat occupied recognition:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 339 A    HW: 8K0 959 339 A
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H02 0060
   Serial number: 5810000R130000ELV6

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
   Serial number: 6334MSME7E132F38Q

   Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
   Serial number: 6344MSME7E032067D

   Rear Side Airbag Crash Sensor (on driver's side):
   Serial number: 6352QSME16361478D

   Passenger side rear thorax airbag crash sensor:
   Serial number: 6362QSME013A0B68H

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side:
   Serial number: 63732SME1644475C%

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side:
   Serial number: 63832SME1644507E+

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:. 8K0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 953 568 Q    HW: 8R0 953 568 Q
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H02 0171 
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 20130909000500
   Coding: 000036
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: CFEE14929E8736EE82-809A

   Component: E221 - MFL  H03 0004

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:. 8T0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 920 984 N    HW: 8T0 920 984 N
   Component: KOMBIINSTR.   H35 0563 
   Revision: 00300000    Serial number: WVH23369E     
   Coding: 8BB701000301D705020000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: CAD8058665E513C6D5-809E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 8T0-907-468.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 907 468 N    HW: 8R0 907 468 C
   Component: GW-BEM 4CAN-M H11 0056 
   Revision: 1Y070028    Serial number: 2841Y138140169
   Coding: 80C303FF00
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: CAD8058665E513C6D5-809E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 915 181     HW: 8T0 915 181
   Component: J367-BDMHella  H03 8041
   Serial number: 3556271203         

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr (J136)       Labels:. 8T0-959-760.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 959 760 E    HW: 8T0 959 760 E
   Component: MEM-FS        H10 0076 
   Revision: AA000000    Serial number: 00000073324778
   Coding: 081B7B25002400001000
   Shop #: WSC 48606 001 1048576
   VCID: C5C236BA4CFBFCBE38-8090

4 Faults Found:
03338 - Force Limit for Fore/Aft Seat Adjustment: Forwards
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 92
                    Mileage: 177083 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.25
                    Time: 10:22:27

03339 - Force Limit for Fore/Aft Seat Adjustment: Back
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 92
                    Mileage: 177083 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.25
                    Time: 10:22:27

03333 - Motor for Cushion Angle Adjustment
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 92
                    Mileage: 177083 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.25
                    Time: 10:22:27

03334 - Motor for Head Rest Adjustment
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 92
                    Mileage: 177083 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.25
                    Time: 10:22:27


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:. 8K0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 959 793 P    HW: 8T0 959 793 G
   Component: TSG FA        H09 0305 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 011C13224E00120102
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: D6E0E1F6A15D472641-8082

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500)       Labels:| 8K0-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 F    HW: 8K0 909 144 B
   Component: RCEPS         H38 0507 
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 0005829467 Dataset Number: 8T0909852H  0018
   Coding: 100000010001
   Shop #: WSC 06324 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 008014
   ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X_008.rod
   VCID: B4247B7E1F6175369F-80E0

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 HM    HW: 8K0 907 064 GM
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H13 0641 
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0314298844   
   Coding: 0106029A00FA400580B0003200000000
   Shop #: WSC 06324 000 00000
   VCID: 8248EDA61D550B865D-80D6

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 719 B    HW: 8K0 959 719
   Component: GTO BF  H01 0080
   Serial number: 00000000000000720853

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8R0 959 591 A    HW: 8R0 959 591
   Component: J245EE20SKB13  H05 0220
   Serial number: 0123456789ABCDEFGHIJ

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:. 8K0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 959 792 P    HW: 8T0 959 792 G
   Component: TSG BF        H09 0305 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 011C13224E00120102
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: D5E2E6FABC5B4C3E48-8080

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (----)       Labels: 8K0-907-801-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 801 M    HW: 8K0 907 801 J
   Component: EPB-4         H01 0004 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 20000000327999
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ParkiBrake 001028
   ROD: EV_ParkiBrake_AU48.rod
   VCID: B93A4A4A3803885E4C-80EC

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (R)       Labels:. 4F0-035-0xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 4G0 035 082 G    HW: 4G0 035 082
   Component: Radio U SIRIU H60 0133 
   Revision: AB001007    Serial number: 156I20D7842554
   Coding: 020007020100000001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: A4048B3EA781E5B60F-80F0

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels:. 4E0-035-6xx-5F.clb
   Part No SW: 8R1 035 746 D    HW: 8R1 035 746 D
   Component: H-BNT-NA      H40 0738 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 204I10D7598191
   Coding: 130200020006A1EF45028B4E00000403140000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: B83C4F4E0B099156B3-80EC

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8R0 060 884 BD
   Component: NAR 2013/2014  0802

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8R0 919 604 A    HW: 8R0 919 604 A
   Component: DU7 High  H42 0104
   Serial number: A130HJ0D2813202     

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8T0 919 611 L    HW: 8T0 919 611 C
   Component: E0380 Bedient  H02 0030
   Serial number: 00000001607691     

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8R0 060 961 F
   Component: CD-Database  5298

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam.        Labels: 8T0-907-441.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 441 C    HW: 4L0 907 441 B
   Component: J772__Rearview      0040 
   Revision: --H08---    Serial number: 525PA8-J36936T
   Coding: 1000008
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: B83C4F4ECB099156B3-80EC

2 Faults Found:
02203 - Audio / Video Input 1
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 10
                    Reset counter: 140
                    Mileage: 177083 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.26
                    Time: 16:00:57

             Freeze Frame:
                        Term 15 On
                        Reverse OFF
                    Count: 3

02203 - Audio / Video Input 1
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 137
                    Mileage: 177132 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.10.29
                    Time: 14:24:50

             Freeze Frame:
                        Term 15 On
                        Reverse OFF
                    Count: 3


End----------(Elapsed Time: 02:00, VBatt start/end: 14.5V/14.5V)-----------

 

[Uwe]

How about the fuel filter and the transfer pump?

-Uwe-

 

[victor35ma]

How about the fuel filter and the transfer pump?

-Uwe-

Hello Mr Uwe, thank for always response to my questions. fuel pump i think is fine. i did a residual pressure test hooking up a gauge and and pressure never went down fst for almost 2 hours then it start dropping slowly. see this pics and video.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1msDbKdq_ICj-coC5dgCkp17S0awBFdJU?usp=sharing

 

[Uwe]

i did a residual pressure test

That looks like rail pressure, and if so, it doesn't tell us a thing about the ability of the transfer pump to deliver fuel to to the high pressure pump.

-Uwe-

 

[victor35ma]

That looks like rail pressure, and if so, it doesn't tell us a thing about the ability of the transfer pump to deliver fuel to to the high pressure pump.

-Uwe-

you asked me about transfer pump aka lift pump aka fuel tank pump... that is its pressure. it is running when running at 35 %DC

 

[Dr Sheldon]

you asked me about transfer pump aka lift pump aka fuel tank pump... that is its pressure. it is running when running at 35 %DC

He asked you very specifically

about the ability of the transfer pump to deliver fuel to to the high pressure pump.

Here you will need to measure Pressure and FLOW !! - After the Filter !!

 

[Dr Sheldon]

And where is the fault code with the FREEZE FRAME Data ??

 

[Uwe]

you asked me about transfer pump aka lift pump aka fuel tank pump... that is its pressure.

72 PSI from the transfer pump?

-Uwe-

 

[EuroX]

Source of the HPFP and any parts that were replaced?

 

[victor35ma]

72 PSI from the transfer pump?

-Uwe-

yes it is...

 

[victor35ma]

He asked you very specifically

Here you will need to measure Pressure and FLOW !! - After the Filter !!

35 % dc. you face scare me Yogui. if you dont understand that. please dont participate. if you are used to be bully then i cant tell you what i thinking about you.

 

[stefdds]

seemed high, but.....

B8 S4 Fuel pressure before High Pressure fuel pump

Hey Guys what should the fuel pressure be on the rubber fuel hose that goes into the high Pressure fuel Pump?

www.audizine.com

 

[Dr Sheldon]

35 % dc. you face scare me Yogui. if you dont understand that. please dont participate. if you are used to be bully then i cant tell you what i thinking about you.

Let me explain what I am thinking !!

I guess that 35% dc refers to Duty Cycle - Is that 35% On or 35% Off ? Not that it matters as long as Pressure and Flow is correct at the HPFP.

Now you seem to have ignored

Here you will need to measure Pressure and FLOW !! - After the Filter !!

Pressure and Flow are not the same !! For that reason there are Technical Specifications for Pressure and Flow in the Workshop Manual of every fuel driven Engine with a Fuel Pump - Not just in a Car.

Will be the same in a Lawn Mower or an Oil Tanker. Even Carburettor Engines.

With P0087 which is a very common DTC and not difficult to diagnose - (Actually child play with the right tools) - You need to confirm LP pressure and flow before you go anywhere near the HP side

Got this AUDI S5 came to shop for a too rich mixture due to oil contaminated with fuel, we replaced the HPFP and now i am dealing with this P0087.

How do you know, for sure, that P0087 was not there before you replaced the HPFP ?? I doubt that you do - how could you ?



So far this is what I am reading here

What do you guys think could be the case here.

You looking for thoughts and guesses - Test and Measurement tips is what I would be after, I can make wrong guesses without help !!

Here you will need to measure Pressure and FLOW !! - After the Filter !!

Ignored measuring fuel flow

And where is the fault code with the FREEZE FRAME Data ??

Ignored this question that was designed to help you.

Source of the HPFP and any parts that were replaced?

Ignored this question from @EuroX too

 

[NZDubNurd]

72 PSI from the transfer pump?

-Uwe-

Some of the FSI motors ( I only know the MK5 ones though!) run a 6.6 bar (95 PSI) mechanical regulator built into the fuel filter. The pump duty cycle is varied to achieve lower pressures.

Some ECU's measure the low pressure, some don't - they just guess: So if there is a fault, the "measured" pressure can just be a calculated value and without measuring it properly, it could be anything... SO, once we know the pressure and flow, we could move on from there... anything else is guesswork and wasted time.


Sidequest: It's like Oil: People wank on about oil pressure for bearings etc... they don't need pressure*, they need FLOW! We use pressure to tell us if we have flow or not, because it's a cheap way to do it. When we DO measure oil pressure, it's just after the filter, BEFORE the engine, so a restriction there gives us awesome pressure readings, but NO IDEA what's going on at the bearings in the motor. It's an INDICATOR only.

 

[Dr Sheldon]

Sidequest: It's like Oil: People wank on about oil pressure for bearings etc... they don't need pressure*, they need FLOW! We use pressure to tell us if we have flow or not, because it's a cheap way to do it.

It may be a cheap way to do it for the VM however Cheap is not always best in the Diagnostic Bay.

I have seen techs disappearing up their own a55 holes by ignoring the flow test.

Poor flow will always show good pressure because it will build in time.

Good Flow and Good Flow alone is vital when a Sharp demand for Increased Pressure is required

Pumps - Oil Pumps / Fuel Pumps .... Cannot create pressure autonomously - All they create is flow. It is the restriction of flow upstream that creates the pressure.

In CRD & GDi it is the Injectors. In an Engine it is the Bearings. In Air Con it is the Expansion Valve.


We have a prime example here of a Flow Measurement not taken because Pressure is ok. A cheap and wrong way to go.

Pressure is Possible without Flow.
Flow is Possible without Pressure.

P0087 is set if Pressure is less than specified for a very short time - measured in milliseconds !!


IMV, DRV, Fuel Pressure Regulators all alter flow to Control Pressure - Making Flow a little more important than those knowledged correctly will give credit for..

 

[victor35ma]

I from the transfer pump?

hello mr UWE.... P0087 got fixed. since we didn't have that P0087 code before we warranty la HPFP. installed a another new one and code didn't come back.



A COMMENT:
ROSS TECH FORUM should block bullies. I know they are proliferating in this days but that don't make them being right. this people they are always right.... even in Hell

 

[EuroX]

Should of answered my question sooner and avoided the headaches. This is why there is a block button available to you.