2009 VW Touareg no start

[Dr Sheldon]

012370 - Starter Control; Returned Message P3052 - 000 - 50 Short to Plus - Intermittent

???

 

[Wr00m]

If it was not seized at that point after it broke down then it likely is not now. Engines don't lock up for fun !!


Looks like this new problem is man made

Agreed. This was weird to me as well. The only thing that changed is the battery. I am going to try to make sure the guy who removed it didn't do any ...diagnostics.

 

[Wr00m]

Another thought that came up - the vehicle has a full tank. This means it overheated a short while after refueling. Are any of those symptoms consistent with someone putting in petrol instead of diesel?

 

[Dr Sheldon]

Agreed. This was weird to me as well. The only thing that changed is the battery. I am going to try to make sure the guy who removed it didn't do any ...diagnostics.

Agree - If it cranked after it had overheated then I find it hard to believe it has seized now - Never say never but ....

Especially in light of bits being taken off the car

Try turning the engine by hand.

 

[Dr Sheldon]

Another thought that came up - the vehicle has a full tank. This means it overheated a short while after refueling. Are any of those symptoms consistent with someone putting in petrol instead of diesel?

You're clutching at straws there - Wishful thinking !!

Petrol in Diesel or Vice Versa would stop the engine - Never would it cause it to overheat - It just would not run long enough.


Diesel in a Petrol is easy, Does no real harm !!

Petrol in a diesel has the potential to destroy the HPFP and Injectors. Diesel is a Fuel and a Lubricant - the lack of lubrication will destroy those components easily and quickly.

Take a fuel sample and smell it - I always get a thimbleful and IN A SAFE SPACE hold a flame over it - if it flares it has petrol in it - Pure diesel will not.

 

[Dr Sheldon]

You are looking too far ahead here !!

First you need to get it cranking if it will.

Next is the Compression test.


As already said, unlikely that it is seized. It clearly lost all it's coolant !!

That coolant could be in the bore(s) hydrolocking it. Pop the Glow Plugs or Injectors - have a look.

 

[Wr00m]

Try to turn the engine by hand. If it doesnt move then its party time.

I am only a casual YouTube mechanic, so bear with me. I looked it up, and it seems I need a special tool to rotate the crankshaft by hand. That tool is at least two weeks delivery, unless I want to pay over $100 for it.

Is there a way to do this without that tool? I have most of the standard tools a shop would have, but only very few specifically automotive tools.

 

[EuroX]

I don't believe there is.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Umh... make your own.... it's just a 22mm square bar with a 12mm locating pin on it.... if you're careful, you can probably just get away with the SQ bar alone

 

[Crasher]

Das ist FUBAR…

 

[Wr00m]

Updates:
1. I was able to crank. I got a stronger battery and marked the crank position. When attempting to start, the mark moved.

2. I proceeded to do the compression test. I undid the first glow plug, and there was oil on the tip. Does this mean there is oil in the cylinders? Is this a clue to what the problem is? I could not complete the compression test because the kit I have has an L joint that I can't get to connect to the adapter unless I take a bunch of things off the engine and I'd rather not. So weird they didn't just make it straight. Anyway I will get a straight fitting tomorrow and continue with the pressure test.

3. I think I mentioned this before - when I turn the key from acc to off there is a very loud humming (kinda, but higher pitch) noise. The noise is coming from the very top right (if facing the engine bay) side, where the vacuum stuff is. The noise lasts about 1 minute and then stops. Am I correct to assume this is a vacuum pump? More importantly, is this a clue to the no start problem?

---

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Mate, what are you talking about?
Does the engine spin over or not? What do you mean, it "moved"? Like a few revs, or just bumped a bit and got jammed again?
Why haven't you pulled all GPs out yet, even before attempting to crank\spin over again? Do you not understand that if you have FLUIDs (coolant or oil or fuel) in your cylinders, it's HYDROLOCKED?

 

[Wr00m]

Mate, what are you talking about?
Does the engine spin over or not? What do you mean, it "moved"? Like a few revs, or just bumped a bit and got jammed again?

Apologies, I must have not explained it in mechanic terms, since I am not a mechanic. Here is what I did:

1. Used a bit of liquid white-out to mark the serpentine belt and the crank wheel in the same spot.
2. Using a bigger battery this time (since that's the only thing that changed, so I tried reversing the situation), I tried starting the car.
3. It didn't start obviously, so I turned the key to off so it stops trying.
4. I went to the engine bay,and inspected the spot I marked. The white dots were not aligned anymore, and they were far away from each other. To me, that meant the belt has travelled a significant distance, and therefore the engine spun.


Does this describe the situation better?

 

[Wr00m]

You are looking too far ahead here !!

First you need to get it cranking if it will.

Next is the Compression test.


As already said, unlikely that it is seized. It clearly lost all it's coolant !!

That coolant could be in the bore(s) hydrolocking it. Pop the Glow Plugs or Injectors - have a look.

I am still in the process of getting the compression test done. My kit has an L coupling (for some weird reason), which prevents me from attaching it. I am looking for a fitting to make it straight, so bear with me.

 

[Wr00m]

Why haven't you pulled all GPs out yet, even before attempting to crank\spin over again?

To do what? I can pull all sorts of parts off the car, but then what? Again, I am not a mechanic.

 

[Dr Sheldon]

To do what? I can pull all sorts of parts off the car, but then what? Again, I am not a mechanic.

Regardless of what you are - Can you get the Glow Plugs out or not ??

If yes then pull them out !! If not then you are clearly in no position to help your friend. A willing to help hindrance is a hindrance all the same !!

You have had the correct advice so far !! All you got to do is absorb it and act on it.

Back to the Glow Plugs - Will you pull them out or not ??

 

[Wr00m]

Regardless of what you are - Can you get the Glow Plugs out or not ??

If yes then pull them out !! If not then you are clearly in no position to help your friend. A willing to help hindrance is a hindrance all the same !!

You have had the correct advice so far !! All you got to do is absorb it and act on it.

Back to the Glow Plugs - Will you pull them out or not ??

Yes, I can pull them out - easy. I was planning on pulling them out one by one to do the compression test.
My question is what do I do with the plugs? Do I inspect them for something? I am unclear as to what is the next step after I take them out. If you can please explain at least why I am taking them out, maybe I could understand it that way.

Also the vehicle is officially mine now. If I start it - great. If not, it's a part out and crush.

Regardless, I am appreciative of all the advice and I am doing my best to get it done. I just need a clarification on that part with the GP.

 

[Crasher]

If it won't move, use a bigger hammer...

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Apologies, I must have not explained it in mechanic terms, since I am not a mechanic.

Good news mate, I'm not one either!

To do what? I can pull all sorts of parts off the car, but then what? Again, I am not a mechanic.

To create a hole and allow any fluids from the cylinders to be pushed out (vented) since fluid does not compress very well.

Do you not understand that if you have FLUIDs (coolant or oil or fuel) in your cylinders, it's HYDROLOCKED?

Updates:
1. I was able to crank. I got a stronger battery and marked the crank position. When attempting to start, the mark moved.

2. I proceeded to do the compression test. I undid the first glow plug, and there was oil on the tip. Does this mean there is oil in the cylinders? Is this a clue to what the problem is?

Yes.

I am unclear as to what is the next step after I take them out. If you can please explain at least why I am taking them out, maybe I could understand it that way.

Because that's what someone who understands how an engine works would do.... if you want to play mechanic, learn how to do so, or at least follow those who have played one before!

After you pull the GPs out, you have a hole in your cylinder.... now, you can attempt to crank it over, and the fluids that are in there will NOT be hydro locking the engine any more. If it still doesn't rotate at this point, you've already incurred mechanical damage and there's major internal damage (bent rods, seized pistons, bearings, valves, etc)

If it won't move, use a bigger hammer...

Best advice thus far!

 

[Wr00m]

To create a hole and allow any fluids from the cylinders to be pushed out (vented) since fluid does not compress very well.

OK, that's what I was asking for. Now I get it.