Hello, 2007 A3 8P fixer

   #1  

ramack

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Hi,
My daughter bought a 2007 A3 8P 3-4 years ago, and I've basically turned into her mechanic to help save her $$$. Thus far I've been able to resolve everything with a hand held scanner to read thrown codes, fix the issue, then clear the code(s). Until now...I've got to fix the AC issues.
Thanks,
 
   #3  

ramack

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I've run the AutoScan and it is below.

Code:
Wednesday,10,July,2024,15:09:53:29520
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.5.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240429 DS355.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUNF78P77A104761   License Plate:
Mileage: 286030km-177730mi   Repair Order:


Chassis Type: 8P (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 47 52 56 62 72

VIN: WAUNF78P77A104761   Mileage: 286030km-177730miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels:. 06F-907-115-AXX.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 115 P    HW: 8P0 907 115 B
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010 
   Revision: 5BH15---    Serial number: AUX7Z0F9FNP08B
   Coding: 0103010A1C070160
   Shop #: WSC 26110 444 84369
   VCID: 3F87BA806E0EEC6E7A-806A
   VINID: 9D195E5872201C74410041C6048FC2FEEF

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 043 Q    HW: 02E 927 770 AE
   Component: GSG DSG         070 1303 
   Revision: 04507000    Serial number: 00000610120886
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 224113F4FDBCA18675-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels:. 1K0-614-517-MK60AT.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 614 517 AC    HW: 1K0 614 517 AC
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60-AT   0102 
   Revision: 00H13001   
   Coding: 0053890
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 68D541DC5B008BD6EB-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 AA    HW: 8P0 820 043 AA
   Component: KlimavollautomatH19 0360 
   Revision: 395007      Serial number: 8P0820043AA   
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 6BDF3ED04AF6A0CE86-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 F    HW: 8P0 907 279 F
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H43 1201 
   Revision: 00H43000    Serial number: 00000006335145
   Coding: 018C4F81C014100000181800180000000028FE175C1100
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 08192
   VCID: 4085B97C13F0939603-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer AU350   H01 0130 
   Coding: 00062736
   Shop #: WSC 06314 

1 Fault Found:
00984 - Left Tail Light (M4)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 12
                    Reset counter: 65
                    Mileage: 284088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2024.05.22
                    Time: 19:00:00

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 13.80 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8P0-959-655-94.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 A    HW: 8P0 959 655 A
   Component:    Airbag 9.41  H12 3890 
   Revision: 91H12389    Serial number: 0035W0G032AS 
   Coding: 0032605
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4085B97C13F0939603-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P0 910 339
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 001 0020

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 3HQ26         

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 0001.01.000000100000000000ÿ†63

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 000000ÿ†6332DRB404295323Bÿ†63

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 95323Bÿ†6342DRB4042988B3Tÿ†63

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 988B3Tÿ†63528RB401B65F1ATÿ†63

   Subsystem 7 - Serial number: 65F1ATÿ†63628RB401B65F5BZÿ†63

   Subsystem 8 - Serial number: 65F5BZÿ†63729RB401CD5526Rÿ†63

   Subsystem 9 - Serial number: D5526Rÿ†63829RB401CD66BE4ÿ

   Subsystem 10 - Serial number: D66BE4ÿ

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8P0-953-549-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 953 549 F    HW: 8P0 953 549 F
   Component: J0527           H36 0070 
   Coding: 0012142
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4183BC7818FA9A9E0C-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           H07 0090

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 H    HW: 8P0 920 981 H
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H20 0570 
   Revision: D0H20004    Serial number: 2249F004004615
   Coding: 0000268
   Shop #: WSC 20213 067 57207
   VCID: 3D7BC0886402FE7E68-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 K    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533__Gateway   H12 0170 
   Revision:   H12       Serial number: 3300106A02803A
   Coding: 3F3F034207002102
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 2F67EAC0BE6E1CEEEA-807A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 H    HW: 8P0 920 981 H
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H20 0570 
   Revision: D0H20004    Serial number: AUX7Z0F9FNP08B
   Shop #: WSC 21854 003 1048576
   VCID: 3D7BC0886402FE7E68-8068

1 Fault Found:
01176 - Key
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 801 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090 
   Coding: 0001177
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4085B97C13F0939603-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V3.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 L
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.079 H07 1806 
   Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
   VCID: 346DE5AC57483F3697-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 433 G
   Component:    KSG          H08 0070 
   Coding: 9B8022A001382D09050FC88F0477
   Shop #: WSC 21854 003 1048576
   VCID: 4085B97C13F0939603-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted     

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted     

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 8Px-035-382.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P4 035 382     HW: 8P4 035 382
   Component: AB2 SUBWOOFERBOXH04 0180 
   Revision: 00003       Serial number: 30674696785506
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 71E32CB868DA4A1EBC-8024

1 Fault Found:
00421 - Rear Left DSP Midrange Speaker (R105)
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 155
                    Reset counter: 25
                    Mileage: 250622 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.08.01
                    Time: 14:55:41

             Freeze Frame:
                    Temperature: 44.0°C


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 8P0-959-802-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 802 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090 
   Coding: 0001177
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4183BC7818FA9A9E0C-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8P0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 035 186 F    HW: 8P0 035 186 F
   Component: concert II US   H52 0470 
   Revision:      04S    Serial number: AUZ5Z6F6033755
   Coding: 0001005
   Shop #: WSC 130822 003 00000
   VCID: 356BD8A85C32263EA0-8060

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 74
                    Mileage: 250625 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.08.01
                    Time: 15:22:58


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 8P4-959-801.lbl
   Part No: 8P4 959 801 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0070 
   Coding: 0001176
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4085B97C13F0939603-8014

1 Fault Found:
00934 - Electric Window Motor; Rear Left (V26)
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 8P4-959-802.lbl
   Part No: 8P4 959 802 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0070 
   Coding: 0001176
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4183BC7818FA9A9E0C-8014

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 01:52)--------------------------
 
   #5  

ramack

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Sorry, I got interrupted and didn't give background on the vehicle when I posted the AutoScan. My daughter bought this 2007 A3 8P about 3 years ago. The AC has never worked and where we live in Colorado (USA) although it does get hot, you don't really need AC. The heater works fine, no issues. She'll be moving to a state where the AC is basically a must have, so what I've been putting off...cannot be any longer.

Minimum instrument panel vent temp is ~60F on a 90F day.
System pressure readings are:
Low side: 50-55psi
High side: 145-155psi
Ambient temp: 90F

I have evac'd the system, pulled a vacuum for a couple hours, let stand to check for leaks, then refilled with ~18oz of r134. The ECON light stayed on, but went off after I restarted the car. I've double checked the refrigerant charge level, and pressures are pretty much at nominal for static pressure readings. It's 91F and gauge pressure is showing ~100psi. R134 charts for nominal static pressure is 104psi, so I've got the correct charge amount. That's another check box marked...

Before running AutoScan, I read the Measurement Block 08-Auto HVAC and looked through the active groups, group001 was the group I was expecting to be related to the compressor and G65 switch. I'll get those posted shortly.
 
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   #9  

ramack

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From D3E8001F52D-Heating__Ventilation_and_Air_Conditioning, Pg 80.

Am I understanding the above plot correctly, and that the G65 pressure switch is functioning properly. 12bar (175psi) should produce ~37% duty. Measurement block reads 35.5%.
 
   #10  

ramack

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Group 010 Fresh Air Intake Temperature G89 is showing -50C. That's way off, it was 97F. So possible defective sensor. However, the HVAC manual states that MY2006 those are being phased out. I'm not sure if this vehicle has that sensor or not. If the controller see a reading that the ambient air temp is -50C, no way it's going to have the compressor turn on.
 
   #11  

Sebastian

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-50.0 °C is a replacement value, meaning it's not an actual measurement but what the control module uses when a signal is not present or a component is deactivated. If the manual states that these were phased out, I would not worry about this value. The G65 looks fine as well. If the car is under load, how far up can you get the G65 values (pressure & duty cycle). Interestingly your G263 isn't as low as I would expect it to be, but I haven't touched an 8P in a while. There was a known issue with the G263s where they were not sealed properly and water ingressed resulting them show way off (too high) temperatures, which then caused the system to freeze the evaporator and after that no air would go through. Hence lacking cooling effect even though the rest of the system was fine (RoW TPI 2018095). Specific instructions on that are in the factory repair manual, under cooling capacity check. Long story short, you should see the G263 go down below 5 °C. To test this, get the engine to 2000 RPM and put the A/C in recirculation mode and give it up to 5 minutes. See this chart (A=G263, B=Ambient, C=Proper Range)...

A87-0373.png

Other than that, do you have an infrared thermometer or other suitable temperature probe, that can measure the outlet temperatures? Let's start verifying the ones you can get easy access to, starting with the vents. The ambient temperature (like G17) looks way off but that may be due to standing/sunlight. Though for now my eyes would be on the G263.

In general, all data from the modules are metric. All specs in the factory repair manuals are metric, so please do not throw any non-metric measurements in the pot. This is a German car, it WANTS you to measure it in metric units. 😉
 
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   #12  

ramack

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In general, all data from the modules are metric. All specs in the factory repair manuals are metric, so please do not throw any non-metric measurements in the pot. This is a German car, it WANTS you to measure it in metric units. 😉
Ha! Although I'm in the USA, I like SI units more than you might think! When I was in 2nd grade, my teacher stood before the class holding a measuring stick (in one hand) that looked similar to the yard stick in her other hand. She stated that by the time we were in junior high, we'd be using the metric system. That never happened, ha. Fast forward to when I went to college and had my physics and engineering classes, I learned to really appreciate SI units! Units cancel out so sweetly. Slugs, pound-mass, pound-force...gad!
 
   #13  

ramack

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Yeah, from what I've found online, the -50C reading is because the sensor doesn't exist. There's another sensor that's in the AC box, in front of the glove box that the controller reads from if the G89 isn't installed from the factory, that might be the G263 you're referring to. It's not easy to access based on what others have noted, a lot of stuff has to be taken apart to access it.

I don't know how far up the curve the G65 will go, but the pressure readings taken from the high pressure port is 12 bar (175psi). I'll verify that the sensor output tracks the physical gauge readings, but I expect that it does. I do know that the compressor cycles on/off when the AC is on and I press the ECON button. I'm pretty confident mechanically the system is ok, it's a sensor somewhere that's off or failed. I don't think that the compressor has partially failed based on the duty cycles I'm seeing. Something it telling the controller to partially compress. The evaporator isn't icing, the system isn't cooling enough for that to occur. It may have at some point and that caused the sensor to fail or deviate from nominal, but that's definitely not occurring now. I haven't had the AC work great at start up then the output decline, it's never functioned properly while we've owned the vehicle.

I don't have an IR thermometer, but have been using an analog thermometer probe for taking instrument panel vent temps. I can borrow an IR thermometer though.

I'll start looking for the G263 sensor later this afternoon, also verify the G65 output tracks with the gauges.
 
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   #14  

ramack

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If the car is under load, how far up can you get the G65 values (pressure & duty cycle).
So far, the highest reading I've seen is 12bar, 35.5%. Regardless of ambient temperature.

There was a known issue with the G263s where they were not sealed properly and water ingressed resulting them show way off (too high) temperatures, which then caused the system to freeze the evaporator and after that no air would go through. Hence lacking cooling effect even though the rest of the system was fine (RoW TPI 2018095).
Since the temperatures aren't getting close to freezing, icing isn't an issue.

Long story short, you should see the G263 go down below 5 °C.
The lowest I've seen the evap. temp (G263) is about 10C, that's when it's 15C-20C outside. That's with the vehicle moving, first thing in the morning on my morning commute.

The high side pressure just isn't getting anywhere close to where it should. Should be getting up to 18-20 bar. I took the A3 out this evening, 10-11 bar max. Maybe there's an issue with the expansion valve, like the orifice is too large and not allowing enough pressure to build up so that the required expansion just isn't occurring? I'm stumped and frustrated, ha.

Will VCDS allow me to control the N280 valve, force it to 90%? The first time I opened the program, I looked in the Adaptation but didn't see anything to allow that. Probably a safety/liability issue.
 
   #15  

ramack

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I didn't have VCDS hooked up for this morning's commute, so only took a few basic temp readings. The ambient temp was ~22C this morning, I'm expecting it will be 38C minimum for the drive home. All four IP vents temp (analog probe) were 15C.

When I had VCDS hooked up yesterday evening, I verified that no codes are being thrown. I'm beginning to think it's something with the compressor itself, but that's just a guess. I'm not fully understanding how the AC system works on this car, specifically the relationship of the G65, N280 and the compressor. Seems like the output of the G65 is ok, and the N280 is doing what it's told, but the high side pressure is way low.
 
   #16  

Sebastian

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For the time being, based on what you have provided as measurements. My bets are still on the G263, especially because that is a known issue. Most/all your other thoughts / proposed culprits could as well be a result of said faulty G263.
 
   #17  

ramack

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For the time being, based on what you have provided as measurements. My bets are still on the G263, especially because that is a known issue. Most/all your other thoughts / proposed culprits could as well be a result of said faulty G263.
Thanks for the input Sebastian. I'll start going down that path.
Danke!
 
   #18  

Sebastian

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These are some selected known/good values from a similar 8P at idle...

Code:
1,0,General,
1,1,A/C Regulating,Valve (N280),0.000...0.050 A = Compressor OFF
0.300...0.650/0.700 A = Compressor in Loop Control Mode
;0.700 A,Current,
1,2,A/C Regulating,Valve (N280),0.0 % = Compressor OFF
30.0...100.0 % = Compressor in Loop Control Mode
;69.0 %,Load,
1,3,High Pressure,Sensor (G65),Range: 0.0...100.0 %
Specification: 12.0...78.0 %
;38.5 %,Load,
1,4,Refrigerant,Pressure,Specification: 2.6...29.0 bar
;14.0 bar,Absolute Pres.,
;
9,0,Outlet/Footwell Blower Temperature,
9,1,Left Footwell,Blower Temp. (G261),
;9.0°C,Temperature,
9,2,Right Footwell,Blower Temp. (G262),
;10.2°C,Temperature,
9,3,Left Outlet Blower,Temp. (G150),
;10.2°C,Temperature,
9,4,Right Outlet Blower,Temp. (G151),
;10.8°C,Temperature,
;
10,0,Temperatures,
10,1,Evaporator,Temp. (G263),
;9.0°C,Temperature,
10,2,Fresh Air Intake,Temperature (G89),
;28.0°C,Temperature,
10,3,Ambient Temp.,(Filtered),
;22.5°C,Temperature,
10,4,Ambient,Temperature (G17),
;29.5°C,Temperature,
;
11,1,Temperature,Dash Panel (G56),
;25.5°C,Temperature,
11,2,Turbine (V42),Dash Panel,Specification: 1500...4200 RPM
;2740 /min,RPM,
11,3,Coolant,Temperature,
;91.0°C,Temperature,
11,4,Idle Speed,Increase,Range: ON/OFF
;ON, ,

What you could also do is test ALL temperature values after the car sitting for a few hours and comparing them to ambient temperature with just the ignition being ON but the engine and blower fan OFF.
 
   #19  

ramack

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The G263 is out. Pretty easy removal. The glove box assy and a couple bolts for the passenger console kick panel and it's right there. Not anything close to what I've read others write. No OEM parts available today, not until next week. I want to get this fixed this weekend, but was able to get one shipping and I should have it on Sunday, today is Friday.

In the mean time, I'm searching to see what tests I can do with a DVM and taking resistance measurements. The resistance is definitely inversely proportional to temperature. I'd guess there's a chart or table that I could check against...somewhere.
 
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ramack

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Stupid VCDS newbie question. The sample data above, is that from creating a log or another method?
 
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