2012 DSG 02E noise

[El Polaco]

I have a customer with a 2012 TDI jetta with an 02E DSG, just over 100k. Last week she was out of town and got stuck in an area that was experiencing flooding. According to the owner the car was driven through water that was just over the bottom of the doors. The car was driven home, over 1,000 miles, and began to make a metallic noise while idling the following day. I looked the car over today and the noise is coming from the bell housing area. The noise is quite loud and seems to go away when you bring the RPMs up. The car seems to drive and shift fine. The 18149 code appeared at the approximate date and time the car was driven through the water. I cleared the code and it returned after a short drive around the block.

It sounds like the clutch is making the noise. I can pinpoint the sound when the car is running on the lift with the splash pan off. It sounds like it is dead center between engine and trans. If it is a mechanical issue with the clutch getting water damage through the bell housing would that cause the clutch pressure adaptation issue? I am going to drain the transmission tomorrow and see if there was water intrusion and see if I can reset the clutch adaptations. Any thoughts? I haven't see an issue like this before.

Thanks
j.

Chassis Type: AJ (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 17 19 25 2E 44 56 77

VIN: 3VWLL7AJ1CM037691   Mileage: 165950km-103116miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: Malfunction 0010
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CJA)       Labels: 03L-906-022-CBE.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 019 HH    HW: 03L 907 309 AA
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG  8180  
   Revision: 12H14---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0050078
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 78F5F0A90BA2FEFE65-802C

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.lbl
   Part No SW: 02E 300 057 A    HW: 02E 927 770 AL
   Component: GSG DSG AG6     511 2705  
   Revision: 05351113    Serial number: 00001107120836
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 1737D31526FC11868C-8042

1 Fault Found:
18149 - Clutch Pressure Adaptation 
            P1741 - 002 - Limit Reached
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 255
                    Reset counter: 2
                    Mileage: 164639 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.10.04
                    Time: 12:07:09


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BJ    HW: 1K0 907 379 BJ
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H31 0121  
   Revision: 00H31001    
   Coding: B14B400C492500018D1102ED921A0042A70000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 7BFFEFA5FA94D5E608-802E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 5C0-820-047.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 820 047 AQ    HW: 5C0 820 047 AQ
   Component: J301  Klimaanlage   0203  
   Revision: 2001010S    Serial number: 00000000529379
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6FE7CBF57EECB946B4-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 6R0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 937 087 E    HW: 5C0 937 087 A
   Component: BCM25 JLB H3  H66 0251  
   Revision: B2066001    Serial number: 04371236110352
   Coding: 7B994B1808AB0B0000382000240884C50082502E60000000300000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2F670BF57E6CF946F4-807A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 M    HW: 6R0 959 801 M  Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  002 3464 
   Coding: 820000

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 P    HW: 6R0 959 802 P  Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  002 3464 
   Coding: 820000

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 542 A    HW: 5K0 959 542 A
   Component: E221__MFL-TAS  H09 0013 
   Coding: 020000

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 811 D    HW: 6R0 959 811 D
   Component: J388__TSG_HL  002 3464 
   Coding: 800000

   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 812 D    HW: 6R0 959 812 D
   Component: J389__TSG_HR  002 3464 
   Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels: 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 E    HW: 5C0 959 655 E
   Component: AirbagVW10G   013 0807  
   Serial number: 003GTM01LAM   
   Coding: 00003936
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01020
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360_SE36.rod
   VCID: 346D04999F4ADA9E89-8060

   Seat occupied recognition: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5C6 959 339     HW: 5C6 959 339 
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H10 0027 
   Serial number: 6940000Y1100006RM80W
   Coding: 303241

   Crash sensor for side airbag; driver side: 
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H01 ---- 
   Serial number: 3572MSME30010161ZZZ5

   Crash sensor for side airbag; front passenger side: 
   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H01 ---- 
   Serial number: 3582MSME0B556361ZZZV

   Crash sensor for side airbag; rear; driver side: 
   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3516KSME1B1C2312ZZZM

   Crash sensor for side airbag; rear; passenger side: 
   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3526KSME40082412ZZZB

   Crash sensor for front airbag; driver side: 
   Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Fahr  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3556LSME07631B12ZZZP

   Crash sensor for front airbag; front passenger side: 
   Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Beif  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3566LSME2D551B12ZZZZ

1 Fault Found:
9445892 - Seat occupied recognition control module 
          B1022 04 [137] - Internal System Fault
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 163475 km
                    Date: 2015.10.02
                    Time: 08:53:52


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 5C6 920 951 A    HW: 5C6 920 951 A
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0604  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 270A01
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00119
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04114
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SK35.rod
   VCID: 2953E5ED488897762A-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
   Part No SW: 6N0 909 901     HW: 5C0 937 087 A
   Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H66 0251  
   Revision: B2066001    
   Coding: 102200
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 70E5C889A3D2A6BEAD-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
   Component: IMMO          H04 0604  
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03009
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE25.rod
   VCID: 6AD1DAE18D0E5C6EE3-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels: 5N0-035-342.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 E    HW: 5N0 035 342 E
   Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0240  
   Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7660435378    
   Coding: 010000
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2953E5ED408897762A-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
   Part No: 1K0 909 144 M
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 70     3201  
   Revision: 00H20000    
   Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
   VCID: 346D0499574ADA9E89-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels: 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 164 C    HW: 1K0 035 164 C
   Component: LOW NAR SDARS H02 0004  
   Revision: -----03S    Serial number: VWZ4Z6L3189310
   Coding: 01000400020006
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2241F2C13DBE442E6B-8076

1 Fault Found:
02635 - Tuner Not Enabled/Activated 
            000 -  - 
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 22
                    Mileage: 148844 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.05.16
                    Time: 00:43:07


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels: 7P6-035-730.clb
   Part No SW: 7P6 035 730 F    HW: 7P6 035 730 F
   Component: TELEFON       H09 2902  
   Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007660486879
   Coding: 0A10040000010110
   Shop #: WSC 01383 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVNA A01719
   ROD: EV_UHVNA.rod
   VCID: 356B399D9430C396BE-8060

No fault code found.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Yup drain and inspect fluid + readapt.

You could also have a damaged flex-plate.

 

[El Polaco]

Well that confirmed it. The car was submerged enough that water entered the transmission most likely through the vent. The fluid looked like a milkshake. I drained and refilled it once and reset the adaptations for the clutch pressure. The code is gone but the noise remains. The fresh oil didn't seem to make any noticeable difference so far. The noise is only at idle and goes away at 1100 RPMs. Its a rattling sound or chatter like something is loose and its loud. I am going to take it out for another test drive and see if it still shifts ok. I guess I'll be pulling it and checking the clutch to see if there is anything noticeable that would cause the noise. If I find something damaged in the clutches would it be crazy to fix and reinstall or should I just get a used trans and install? I only want to do this once.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Chances are from the water, that the flex plate might be damaged. It is very common in TDI to make that rapping noise due to rubber being capote in flex-plate.

You will know if the plate is bad when the trans is out so either way has to be removed for verification.

 

[El Polaco]

After resetting the adaptations on the trans the clutch pressure code is gone but the noise at idle is the same. I read up on the flex plate issue with some of the newer TDIs and I would agree that sounds very likely to be the issue. I am going to pull the trans out and inspect. The car did seem to shudder on downshifts after resetting the adaptations. It may have been the same before, I am not sure. I only drove the car briefly the day before. I think the trans is going to need to be drained multiple times before the oil stops coming out looking like it does. I'll update the post once I figure out what's up.

Thanks
j.

 

[El Polaco]

Yep, DMF is bad. Jack was right. It actually feels pretty good when you rotate the center but there is a noise like something is broken inside. I have a new one coming this afternoon. I'll update the post once the car is driveable again. Hopefully, the water didn't cause any other issues that have yet to become apparent.

Thanks
j.

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Your Welcome............

Mystery Solved.........

 

[El Polaco]

I've drained and refilled the trans three times now using about 5 liters of oil each time and the oil has shown little improvement. I have an Assenmacher trans. pump so it's relatively fast but the oil still looks milky. I have another 10 liters coming in the morning. The first batch I drained out still hasn't separated after 5 days. I was hoping I could siphon off the clean oil from the cream but that's not happening as its too whipped up. Does anyone have any ideas on getting the water out beside the dump and fill method? At $20 a liter this is getting expensive but it seems like the only way. Thoughts?

 

[El Polaco]

Trans is now making noises and shuddering during shifting. I reset the adaptations again for 61 and 60 and it hasn't helped if anything its seems to shift worse. Also, the clutch pressure adapt. code has returned and I cannot get it to go away. Even with the key on engine off the code returns immediately and resetting the basic setting for 065 no longer does anything.

I don't know if my "defined drive" was adequate but I was able to run it up 1-6 in Tip mode. I wasn't able to run it 5 min or longer in the gears due to traffic and the local roads. I told the customer to drive it for a few days and see if it can self adapt through normal driving. I think the transmission will be coming out again and getting replaced. Unfortunately, I don't see this one pulling through.

 

[ivagp]

hope she has full coverage. time to call the insurance company.