Tis' the season.... for non-functioning AC - '14 Touareg TDI

[Uwe]

that's pretty much propane.

Isobutane.

-Uwe-

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

I would make sure the shop that evacuates that system knows they can't use their normal equipment and I'm pretty sure the mix of oils is going to be a problem.

Yes, I don't plan on hiding anything on them.... they don't need to contaminate their service station....
I'm sure dealers have a proper Contaminated Refrigerant Recovery Machine

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

From the horse's mouth....

PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS:

Alkane / Hydrocarbon refrigerants are extraordinarily efficient and effective. RED TEK 12a has been formulated and blended to give similar capacities as R12 and R134a, making it simple to use in existing R12 and R134a systems.

RED TEK 12a has been designed, formulated, and blended to operate with similar system pressures as R12.

At evaporating conditions in the system, the pressure of RED TEK 12a will be slightly higher than either R12 or R134a, and in condensing conditions, the pressure of RED TEK 12a will be lower. RED TEK 12a will, therefore, operate with a lower compression ratio, thus improving the operational characteristics of the compressor by significantly lowering high side compressor pressures.

The discharge temperature of RED TEK 12a is similar to R12 and R134a at the same evaporating and condensing temperatures.

As with zeotropic formulations, RED TEK 12a has a temperature glide. When reviewing the RED TEK pressure/temperature charts, you will see the two temperatures (the bubble temperature and dew temperature) correspond to each pressure. The bubble temperature is the saturated liquid temperature (the temperature of the refrigerant when it is pure liquid, but not subcooled), and the dew temperature is the saturated vapor temperature (the temperature of the coolant when it is pure vapor, but not superheated).

When a refrigerant boils, the composition of the vapor may not be the same as the liquid; the vapor could be more abundant in the component with the lower boiling temperature.

At the inlet of the evaporator, the temperature of the refrigerant will be higher than the bubble point because some of the refrigerants will already have flashed off during expansion.

As the refrigerant flows through the evaporator, its boiling point rises as the composition of the liquid phase changes. The evaporating temperature will, therefore, increase as the refrigerant flows through the evaporator, and more of the refrigerant evaporates.

This is known as the temperature glide. In practice, it will not be as much as indicated by the difference in the bubble and dew temperatures on the charts and is in line with other refrigerant blends currently available throughout the Industry.

The same effect occurs in the condenser. In this case, the condensing temperature will decrease through the condenser. There are other effects regarding temperature glide which apply to all zeotropic blends.

• Build upon evaporator may be uneven due to the change in evaporating temperature through the evaporator.
• Where a thermostatic expansion valve is used, slight adjustments will ensure the refrigerant is superheated vapor when it leaves the evaporator.
• The composition of the blend may be different in the vapor state. The refrigerant should, therefore, always be charged as a liquid through the low side service fitting.

RED TEK 12a has a lower density (but higher latent heat per unit weight and better thermal conductivity) than R12. In practice, this means the charge required, in weight terms, is lower than for R12 and R134a to give the same volumetric flow rate and the same capacity.

The charge for RED TEK 12a is 35% of that required for R12 by weight, and 40% of that needed for R134a by weight. Significantly less product is used to complete the same function.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

The Saga continues.....

So I use my local dealer's online booking system to book a visit mid next week, but ofcourse, their selectable options are only for "regular services"... brake job, oil change, detail, etc.
But wait... they have a "custom" selection where you ask for the specific things you need. So I use that, include all my info, VIN, request a system evac, and complete factory spec recharge with both oil and refrigerant, mention that it's currently filled with over the counter R12a, etc.

Service manager calls me a few hours later.... "I'm calling to discuss your Corrosion Inspection service". Excuse me?
I'm like, I'm looking for A/C service... did you call the right guy? He says yup, "the girl" told me you want corrosion warranty on your Touareg.
So I repeat myself to this dude, explain to him the whole thing. He's like... umh.... I don't know that we can service it.
I'm like... so you're saying you don't have the correct equipment to evac a contaminated system? Like I can't be the only vehicle that comes in for service that's had dye or something else added to the system at some point previously. He goes "no, we can't... I've talked to both our master techs and they don't want to ruin our machine".

So I ask him, what if I bring you the system empty? What if I evac it... can you at least recharge it to spec then?
He goes... umh.... let me call you back... I need to look up how much your system holds so that I can quote that.

This is where I am now!

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Are you guys sick of my updates yet?
So gotta do something on your lunch break other than just stuff you face right? How about log your broken A/C? Yup... that's me!

As previously mention, I thought my earlier pressure were a little off, so last night I bled off a little more of the charge.

New static pressures (kinda guessing here as I'm referencing a chart for a refrigerant that I'm not using... close enough... YOLO)


Now.... log\test time.

Drive to a different dealer, to speak to people in person, with the hopes of dealing with someone that can at least spell IQ....


Drive back from said dealer after being disappointed in person just like in the previous story (on the phone, with different dealership).


At least I'm learning lots throughout this whole process (mostly, that service advisors\managers are clueless)

Back to slaving now.... thanks for reading.

 

[TTT]

I would evacuate that gas asap. An r134a bottle and a kitchen weight counter can do this job on a budget.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

I would evacuate that gas asap. An r134a bottle and a kitchen weight counter can do this job on a budget.

Can't.... it's illegal to sell in this country in small bottles\qtys.... and I haven't looked into it, but you might actually need some certification or license if you want to buy a massive 30LB bottle.... which I'd have no use for, so I might as well give a dealership a bunch of hundos to fill the system with only what I need instead of $700 so I can just do it myself....

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

You guys ever drive to a different country to pickup some R134a stuff?
I'm more than likely going to do just that next week the way things are going in my hood!
Pretty sure if I tell the wife "let's cross the border for some random shopping, she'll forgive me for playing mechanic again"

 

[Uwe]

Can't.... it's illegal to sell in this country in small bottles

Oh, Canada!

You guys ever drive to a different country to pickup some R134a stuff?

No, but an interesting aside: Back when R12 was "banned" (from being produced) here and the price of existing stocks went through the roof, R12 was said to be the second most smuggled commodity from Mexico.

-Uwe-

 

[matty90]

Hi sorry if I've missed anything in the thread as I've just had a quick glance through but a couple of questions
1) is the compresser belt driven?
2) is the compresser a permanently engaged clutchless one?
if so you need to check the shear plate mechanism on the pully as if its gone you will get zero fault codes logged but zero cooling

ps I noticed that you had let some gas out earlier not sure why, as I say I have just had a quick scan through but as for standing refridgerant pressure this will go up and down depending on ambient temperature (whiich is why aircon systems charged by refrigerant weight not pressure

 

[EuroX]

Oh, Canada!


No, but an interesting aside: Back when R12 was "banned" (from being produced) here and the price of existing stocks went through the roof, R12 was said to be the second most smuggled commodity from Mexico.

-Uwe-

I have a fresh R12 canister that's never been opened. That being said that Treg should be r134a unless Oh Canada has some weird regulations and they still use R12. As far as evacing the current gas, I will say this but I am not saying this, a little hole in the ozone never hurt nobody. I'm pretty sure you can buy R134a online no license needed I purchase a canister some time ago out of texas 30lb canister.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Hi sorry if I've missed anything in the thread as I've just had a quick glance through but a couple of questions
1) is the compresser belt driven?
2) is the compresser a permanently engaged clutchless one?
if so you need to check the shear plate mechanism on the pully as if its gone you will get zero fault codes logged but zero cooling

ps I noticed that you had let some gas out earlier not sure why, as I say I have just had a quick scan through but as for standing refridgerant pressure this will go up and down depending on ambient temperature (whiich is why aircon systems charged by refrigerant weight not pressure

So wait... you want me to save you time by repeating all the stuff that I've already posted to give you answers to your questions?
Or to educate you about the stuff I'm working with? Or it's current condition?

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

That being said that Treg should be r134a unless Oh Canada has some weird regulations and they still use R12.

If you read what I posted, you will see that I've clearly mentioned that several times...

As far as evacing the current gas, I will say this but I am not saying this, a little hole in the ozone never hurt nobody.

Evacuating the RedTEK 12a currently in the system is not an issue for me because

RED TEK 12a is a 100% natural organic, HC refrigerant that is non-ozone depleting and non-global warming.

.... it's only an issue for all the shops who use a fancy A/C service station that has an analyzer on it and first samples the current charge. This will cause it to say NO GO on the evac as it's a different refrigerant than the R134a that they would be expecting to recover.

I'm pretty sure you can buy R134a online no license needed I purchase a canister some time ago out of texas 30lb canister.

Not here.... and even if I was on that side of the border, I'd have no use for a massive 30lb tank.

As per post #48 above, looks like I can get cans of R134a at Walmart in America, so I'll have to go for a trip across the border in order to avoid all the raping my dealers are planning for me.

 

[Uwe]

Evacuating the RedTEK 12a currently in the system is not an issue for me because

Got a vacuum pump? Just don't smoke while you're venting that that "100% natural organic, HC refrigerant"

even if I was on that side of the border, I'd have no use for a massive 30lb tank.

I would think of it as an investment. Even if you never use it all, when it goes out of production, whatever you have left will be worth far more than you paid for it.

-Uwe-

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

The more I consider this option, the more I see it in my near future....

Got a vacuum pump? Just don't smoke while you're venting that that "100% natural organic, HC refrigerant"

I do, and I never have..... so I'm good there

 

[matty90]

So wait... you want me to save you time by repeating all the stuff that I've already posted to give you answers to your questions?
Or to educate you about the stuff I'm working with? Or its current condition?

Well pardon me for chipping in and trying to help.
It was late, I was tired, but forgive me for not giving your problem my full undivided attention.
And no I need zero help with refrigeration systems ta
But thanks for the offer
Crack on

 

[EuroX]

If you read what I posted, you will see that I've clearly mentioned that several times...

Evacuating the RedTEK 12a currently in the system is not an issue for me because

.... it's only an issue for all the shops who use a fancy A/C service station that has an analyzer on it and first samples the current charge. This will cause it to say NO GO on the evac as it's a different refrigerant than the R134a that they would be expecting to recover.

Not here.... and even if I was on that side of the border, I'd have no use for a massive 30lb tank.

As per post #48 above, looks like I can get cans of R134a at Walmart in America, so I'll have to go for a trip across the border in order to avoid all the raping my dealers are planning for me.

I'm not much of a reader, I just want the basic facts. Don't care much for logs either or over thinking things for no apparent reason. Best of luck to you. Those cans of R134A at walmart aren't probably actual freon but much rather propane probably. I would not trust a bigbox store with any of that shit.

 

[VW_Factor]

Sidenote. I've measured amounts of refrigerant by weight when adding.

I used a kitchen scale.

Works a treat.

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Interesting and somewhat related (since it's a VW, and an A/C issue)