Interpreting vcds live data

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senna1

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Hi all
Tried posting in tips how to do etc, not allowed? members only .

Ok Topic on viewing injector data,, from Injection quantity, Start quantity, and Deviation,, the listing says it all, or you would think for instance injection quantity is the mg/str of fuel injected under the engine conditions for that time based on airflow, temp, etc, When i ran my lates scan for diagnostic for a van that wont start,

It showed as you can see on the scan log 21.4mg/str, this is before i even crank the engine over as you can see the rpm is o. how is this, if it was Start quantity that would make sense in that as you can see it has the same figure 21.4mg/str which would makes sense for start quantity based on what is in the map for the conditions at that time,, Next injection Devation shows 0.0 for every cyclinder which make sense as no engine running,, But injection quantity does not with injection Duration 0.0 kw .

Regarding the vw caddy had big trouble trying to start,, seemed like fuel issue so i was looking for information of injector mg/str quantity to see if it was getting any.
Even after i locked the fuel delivery to the tandum pump, it still showed fuel from injectors, which obviously it was not getting any with the fuel locked off, i expected to see 0.0 mg/str not 24.4mg/str. so without taking the injectors out and then turning the fuel back on i could not confirm if fuel was getting to the injector, or going else were, especially over night, back to long cranking session before it would start,
Grop 001 sdi cadddy van 06, field box 2. injection quantity.

Thursday,08,October,2015,11:17:16:46146
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: License Plate: SDI



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (03G 906 016 HN)

11:16:55 Group 001: Injection Quantity
0 /min Engine Speed (G28)
21.4 mg/str Injection Quantity
0.0°KW Injection Duration (specified)
13.5°C Coolant Temperature (G62)

11:16:55 Group 005: Start Conditions (last Engine Start)
0 /min Engine Speed (G28)
21.4 mg/str Start Injection Quantity
2.0 Start Synchronisation
13.5°C Coolant Temperature (G62)

11:16:55 Group 013: Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation)
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 2
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 3
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 4
 
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smokey08

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The is a map specificity for engine starting quantity. The fuel quantity is calculated from engine speed and engine temp. The duration does make sense as the engine speed is 0.

If your really interested and don’t mind trying to read abbreviated German then search google for "EDC16 funktionsrahmen" and download the PDF. It will give you a very good insight to how everything works.
 
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Robski

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learn how the fuel system works & test accordingly with gauges, clear pipe/sight block :facepalm:
 
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senna1

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The is a map specificity for engine starting quantity. The fuel quantity is calculated from engine speed and engine temp. The duration does make sense as the engine speed is 0.

If your really interested and don’t mind trying to read abbreviated German then search google for "EDC16 funktionsrahmen" and download the PDF. It will give you a very good insight to how everything works.

I said the fuel quantity is correct for START, but not for inection quantity, two different mbv field, one you need to know how or if the injectors are getting any fuel say for when cranking the engine, wide open throttle etc, the start is in a map that is based on feed back to the ecu such as temp, load etc,
here is my quote,,, It showed as you can see on the scan log 21.4mg/str, this is before i even crank the engine over as you can see the rpm is o. how is this, if it was Start quantity that would make sense,,,,
 
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senna1

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learn how the fuel system works & test accordingly with gauges, clear pipe/sight block :facepalm:
it's not a point of learning how the fuel system works you cheeky git, why use gauges, more time setting up,, when you should be able to confirm with vcds, which i used my other kit to read in the end, but point is i bought vcds specifically for vw audi etc group, where from time to time i'm using other software,

look at what vcds says, fuel start quantity,,,, (based on map,,) then we have fuel injection quantity,,, you would think that is what is injected based duration,, similar feed back to ecu as start quantity,
My point is,, you dont expect to see mg/str of fuel INJECTED when the engine is not even running, pointless,, info,, such as if you wanted to check a injector without removing it,, you may have current, and if your trying to say it should be the same as injection start,, why have two listings,, i had already checked fuel from lift pump, getting to tandum pump, simply enougth, but needed to know what was happening with the injectors if you know anything about how the fuel system works dur, :banghead: fuel pressure was dropping,, so the only place left was injectors,
would be better if vcds did not list injection quantity,, only start quantity, if you gett mg/str without the engine cranking,, which doing the hard way injectors out and crank, and if faulty, get them on a test rig for flow and pintle control.
 
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senna1

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The is a map specificity for engine starting quantity. The fuel quantity is calculated from engine speed and engine temp. The duration does make sense as the engine speed is 0.

If your really interested and don’t mind trying to read abbreviated German then search google for "EDC16 funktionsrahmen" and download the PDF. It will give you a very good insight to how everything works.

forgot to add i already have winols for remaps,, i know the maps several maps, are in there for fuel control,, my whole point is list injection quantity for diagnostic purpose.
 
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senna1

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I would prefer a reply from ross tech as they supply vcds,,
 
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Robski

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Regarding the vw caddy had big trouble trying to start,, seemed like fuel issue so i was looking for information of injector mg/str quantity to see if it was getting any.

look at what vcds says
a PC & diagnostic platform does not tell you everything.
My point is,, you dont expect to see mg/str of fuel INJECTED when the engine is not even running,
Take that up with the manufacturer's SW writer .
i had already checked fuel from lift pump, getting to tandum pump
What about after the head ? like I said learn how the fuel system works & remember what you said in my first quote.
it's not a point of learning how the fuel system works you cheeky git,
And now you're getting abusive I'll start you needy little prick, how many times do you need telling - VCDS only shows you what the PCM allows you to see & should not be the 'holy grail' of diagnostics & should be backed up with testing & proving............ so have a think how the system works & another test you could do to fully prove you're looking at a SW/map issue !
 
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senna1

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INJ QUANTITY(mg/S) _______________________________________ (range: not available)
Indicates the quantity of fuel that has been injected under the present operating conditions. The
value is in milligrams per cylinder stroke. quote from my snap on Volkswagen/Audi
Vehicle Communication
Software Manual
August 2009
EAZ0031B01D Rev. Present time and condition,, yeh and like i said where is the pressure going,, correct injectors PD or head that the injectors sit in, read my links my carefully instead of chriticizing.
 
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senna1

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AS YOU CAN SEE SEVERAL MAP IN ECU,

INJ QUANTITY(DRIVER)(mg/S)
INJ QUANTITY(TORQUE)(mg/S)
INJ QUANTITY(SMOKE)(mg/S)
INJ QUANTITY(CRUISE)(mg/S) _______________________________ (range: not available)
Indicates injection quantity based on the driver’s requirement, injection quantity limited according
to specific RPM/torque limitation, injection quantity limited for smoke prevention, and injection
quantity with cruise control system activated, respectively. DRIVER is the APP sensor input from
the driver commanding more or less fuel. TORQUE is the RPM/load restrictions (torque) placed
on the engine influencing fuel demand. SMOKE is a calculation from the Smoke Map to ensure
fuel quantity does not exceed a preset amount to prevent black smoke. CRUISE calculation is
from various inputs indicating engine fuel delivery for cruise conditions

Plus you have TCS and A/T maps all i wanted was from ross tech or some one to step in and say No you cant see injection quantity truly,, 00 without the engine running. Not go around the houses based on diesel engine mechanical diagnostic,, electronic. like saying engine speed is 10,000 rpm when its not running,
 
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Uwe

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I would prefer a reply from ross tech as they supply vcds,,
VCDS's job is to show you the same data as the dealers' factory tools. We think it does that rather well. If you don't like the data that the factory chose to show, your issue is with the factory, not VCDS.

-Uwe-
 
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senna1

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VCDS's job is to show you the same data as the dealers' factory tools. We think it does that rather well. If you don't like the data that the factory chose to show, your issue is with the factory, not VCDS.

-Uwe-

You can see where i'm coming from if you read my post, snap on comes with manual for vw/audi etc group, describing what i've been writting about, without people getting on my back, read the post, like you have replied is what i basically wanted to know, instead of contradictions, of fuel injected describe as fuel injected, with 0 rpm it should be 0.0.. the rest is correct, duration, deviation, start quantity etc, any way move on,
 
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