Record & compare pre->post coding?

[GlynH]

Hi there,

I'm probably going to be embarrassed at asking this question but here goes anyway;

Is there a 'best' way to record pre & post scans to compare the difference between the two please?

Example; I would like to retrofit TPMS Hi to my 2014 Audi A8L and it comes with a dongle that does all the coding work for you. Apparently all you do is plug it in and off it goes, ferreting around the insides of your cherished motor car fiddling & making any changes it deems necessary while keeping everything secret.

Now it's my car and so I would prefer to do this manually myself as I will then be fully aware of what changes have been made and can then keep a log of what changes I make in case of a problem or needing to revert in the future but it is not an option apparently.

The idea is to use VCDS to take a snapshot pre-coding before I insert the dongle and another post-coding after the dongle has been plugged in, invisibly done its work and unplugged. A before and after if you like. And then I would like to just reflect the changes that the coding dongle made to the car all on its own.

I guess I could do a full Autoscan before & after, save the resulting info logs and then run something like BeyondCompare by Scooter Software to report on what changes it finds but I was wondering if there were a better. way using VCDS to record just the changes?

Await any replies with interest.

Thanks & kind regards,
-=Glyn=-

 

[Fredrick Awuor]

Yes, it would be recommended to take a scan & controller channel maps of modules it is going to code/tweak before and after to see the "secret"

 

[stefdds]

Now it's my car and so I would prefer to do this manually myself as I will then be fully aware of what changes have been made and can then keep a log of what changes I make in case of a problem or needing to revert in the future but it is not an option apparently.

You have the right idea. I'm speculating, but I would be quite surprised if all those 2014 A8's are configured the same..... (ie the "program" written , off of who knows what A8, may not be applicable 100% to Your A8).

Based on posts on this forum who used a app or a dongle to do these tweaks or retrofits "automatically" ..... I could not discourage you more! Since the forum would have no idea what and where the changes were made, how could we help if there was a problem. Sure , you would have a scan and all the channel controller maps, but going through all of that could be very time consuming and complicated and..... it would / could leave your A8 in a very precarious state. It could be a real mess! Especially since it could be prevented.

Personally, I would do it with the help of the forum and VCDS step by step ; still before any changes or questions follow the advise in the post #2 above. ALL the channel maps of the entire car! And not just the ones you think will be changed - because you will most likely guess incorrectly.

Also, keep in mind that what ever product you are going to use is not a Ross-Tech product and thus would not be obligated to "fix" or attend to your "complications" ! ie you may find yourself on your own or with whom ever you purchased the product from.

 

[Uwe]

Based on posts on this forum who used a app or a dongle to do these tweaks or retrofits "automatically" ..... I could not discourage you more!

Hey, at least @GlynH wants to make as clear a snapshot as possible before he starts. That's much better than some of the folks who show up here and say, "I used this Kufadreck dongle and now my car is messed up, so I bought VCDS and now I expect you to help me sort it.

-Uwe-

 

[hadez16]

Be aware that these coding dongles do also write parameters to control units. Such changes are not covered by an Auto-Scan and adaptation maps.

For adaptation maps I use Notepad++ with the "Compare"-Plugin.

Oh wait years ago I wrote a tool called CodingCompare.
If you can fight yourself through that german blog page, english auto-scans should be supported:

CodingCompare vergleicht STG-Codierungen : hadez' VAG Coding-Mania

www.motor-talk.de

 

[nugentp]

AutoScans can easily be compared with text utility software on PC, Mac or Linux.

There will be programmatic ways and other tools to compare the more complex info buried in admaps such as binary. I do like the sound of what the OP is suggesting and there is good logic to the approach, but I would also be concerned about some random/generic/silver-bullet dongle doing something truly unknown to one or more controllers and the 'before' vs 'after' report not necessarily seeing the whole picture.

To minimise chances of that I agree with what others have suggested and to take a snapshot of all controller admaps before and after. Even with that though, there is a technical possibility the dongle could change some bits/bytes in firmware of one or more controllers which you would not be able to see. I do not know if this dongle has that specific capability but if the controllers support a mode to have their firmware modified by OBD operations then it is at least a possibility in my mind.

 

[Uwe]

Be aware that these coding dongles do also write parameters to control units. Such changes are not covered by an Auto-Scan and adaptation maps.

Yep, and on most modules, parameters can only be written, not read back out, so the only way to know for sure what's being done would be to use an OBD Y cable and record the whole session with a CAN logger.

-Uwe-

 

[nugentp]

Thats a great suggestion by @Uwe right there except the price of a decent commercial CAN logger is likely more expensive than the dopey dongle which does the automatic coding changes. Sure a cheap one can be built from open-source components but either way the result is going to be a mighty hex dump that would the sharp eyes of some experts to make sense of WTF the dongle is doing.

 

[Uwe]

the result is going to be a mighty hex dump that would the sharp eyes of some experts to make sense of WTF the dongle is doing.

Indeed, one would have to know how to interpret those CAN messages. A company that makes diagnostic software probably has people who know how.

-Uwe-

 

[Eric]

Let it be on the record that I did NOT sign up to be the one to interpret that log

 

[NEtech]

no problem, I'll sign up

 

[GlynH]

Well I seem to have stirred things up here then!

Thanks for the replies as always guys.

@Fredrick Awuor I still plan to do a full read of all modules whether I end up purchasing the TPMS Hi kit or not as a point of reference. I have kept all of my logs and if I make any changes I even go to the trouble of adding them into my own Changelog file even though I believe VCDS might even do that for me? I was looking for the best way to achieve that complete scan of everything using VCDS pre-post using the coding dongle.

@stefdds The kit is apparently configured for my car model/year and I have to submit my chassis number prior to purchase but I'm caught between a rock and a hard place as Fukutec won't advise what exactly their dongle writes and to which module. They really are most unhelpful - I did ask if they could send me a copy of the installation instructions prior to purchase to gauge if installation was something I was capable of carrying out myself but they refused that request as well. Thing is if I don't use their dongle to update the system and I programmed manually following information on here as much as I trust the info that would be given based upon their unhelpfulness(?) I would probably not be covered by their warranty if anything untoward happened during our after installation.

@hadez16 & @nugentp Thanks for the heads-up on what you use to compare files. I have been a registered user of BeyondCompare for many years now and use it to compare many different types of files/folders etc. so am happy to continue using that for now. My question was more along the lines of how best to obtain that full scan/reading to begin with.

@Uwe That sounded like the best idea until I saw the price of a CANBUS Logger! Ouch! Might give that a miss as it would push up the price of adding TPMS to over £1000 and I'm struggling hard to get my head round the 800 Euro for adding TPMS in the first place! I realise I could use it for future logging but can't envisage what I might end up using it for as my car pretty has everything else fitted as standard. Well apart from wiring up RSE with the Fukutec harness that they won't supply any wiring info for as I didn't purchase it directly from them but from Steffen at Jestex. Despite it being drop-shipped from Fukutec and paying 318 Euros plus an additional 60 Euros for Duty, VAT & Handling to Jestex way back in 2021 and him promising to supply wiring instructions he never did and then ignored every further request inclucing a request for a refund. Needless to say Fukutec wouldn't entertain my pleading with them for wiring info as I never purchased directly from them. Although I fitted all the RSE components I never did get round to wiring them all up making me more than a little sensitive to Fukutec support.

I have a Raspberry Pi kicking around so might investigate turning it into a CANBUS logger or something so standby @Eric & @NEtech ...

Thanks & kind regards,
-=Glyn=-

 

[Zenerdiode]

...I was looking for the best way to achieve that complete scan of everything using VCDS pre-post using the coding dongle.

...My question was more along the lines of how best to obtain that full scan/reading to begin with.

Sans Parameterisation as discussed above; I think the best way for you glean your full scan is to go to VCDS [Options] and set Debug Level to 2. Press [Save] then [Auto-Scan] without closing VCDS. Have either the engine running or a sturdy charger connected whilst you do that. VCDS will then carry out the Auto-Scan but as it contacts each module, it will request all (A)MBVs and Adaptatons and store the 'blockmap' and 'adpmap' files in your \Logs folder.

Trouble is, we don't know if your Fluffatec dongle is altering Adaptation Channels behind a Login or Security Access. To capture those, if you have an inkling which modules and the Login/SA; you can use [Applications] [Controller Channel Map] and enter the Login/SA for each of the modules. This may be automated to some extent using VCDS Scripter by @hadez16

Get that CAN shield for the 'Pi and get coding. I too would love to see what's going on behind the curtain.

You may already be aware of this, but be wary that some dongles render themselves useless once the programming has taken place...

 

[GlynH]

Thanks for the reply Zenerdiode.

I'll give that a go and see what it returns.

I don't have the dongle yet but TPMS Hi has worked itself to the top of my Wish List so it's not a case of if more a case of when!

I'll bear the possible 'Mission Impossible' self-destruct mode in mind as that didn't even flicker across my thought process. Obviously no warranty on the dongle if that is the case then!

Just searched for CAN BUS Shield and it looks like that is for Arduino only but Waveshare 2-Channel Isolated CAN BUS Expansion HAT seems like it might fit the bill for the Pi so thanks for the steer.

Thanks & kind regards,
-=Glyn=-

 

[Zenerdiode]

I faff on with both, so got my shields and hats mixed up