Lambda deleted used car a bad purchase?

   #1  
K

kronner2

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
2
Location
Germany
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=391832
Hello,

I'm used car shopping Tiguans with VCDS in Brazil and it's a horror movie.

One car that scans without faults and has a good price doesn't show 'readiness' in OBDII, probably because of faulty oxygen sensors. The ECU does not give any fault codes, so I assume it has been modified.

I learned that Sao Paulo, the only state in Brazil that ever had emissions testing, has abolished it a few years ago. So emissions is not a problem.
I'm worried about fuel consumption and a still present cathalytic converter clogging up.

Any thoughts?
Is there a good way to check for fuel consumption with VCDS during a test drive?
Or a simple practical method, like getting a tank gauge reading, putting in 5l and driving till they are used up?

Thanks!
 
   #2  
SaVAGeSoot

SaVAGeSoot

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 9, 2022
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
844
Location
ON, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=568688
How do you know the sensors are faulty if there are no codes?
You're also not showing the scan, so how do we know what you're looking at?
 
   #3  
K

kronner2

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
2
Location
Germany
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=391832
SaVAGeSoot said:
How do you know the sensors are faulty if there are no codes?
You're also not showing the scan, so how do we know what you're looking at?
Click to expand...
When I look a the OBDII part, the screen has at least those 2 lines in red. (I guess catalyst monitoring also.) Unfortunately, this was one of the first vehicles I used VCDS with in a long time, so I was too clumsy to make a screenshot or proper log.

obd2mode101.png



It scans like that
Code: 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 5N-VW36 (7N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 1C 22 25 42 44 46 52 53 56 62
          72

VIN: WVGSV65N3BWxxxxxx   Mileage: 145870km-90639miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: OK 0000
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CCT)       Labels:. 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
   Part No SW: 06J 906 026 CT    HW: 06J 906 026 AF
   Component: MED17.5 TFSI 2,0    6996
   Revision: AAH18---    Serial number:            
   Coding: 0423010A190F0160
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 7EF34BFF29F77C63B9-802A
   VINID: 9E65E398615E0D29C5103080247E51B326

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
   Part No SW: 09G 927 750 LQ    HW: 09G 927 750 LQ
   Component: AQ 250 6F           1771
   Revision: 00H90000    Serial number:            
   Coding: 0000840
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 0B15122B6A4559CBAE-805E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 5N0-614-109-C4.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 614 109 Q    HW: 5N0 614 109 Q
   Component: J104    C4 450 V226 0006
   Revision: --H28---    Serial number: 00000003752670
   Coding: 0011540
   Shop #: WSC 00777 998 179970
   VCID: 397998E370599B5BCC-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 907 044 EA    HW: 5K0 907 044 EA
   Component: Climatronic   H17 1010
   Revision: 00003001
   Coding: 0000000002
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
   ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW36.rod
   VCID: 6ED37BBFB1970CE329-803A

1 Fault Found:
9481988 - Air Quality Sensor
          B10AF 04 [008] - Internal System Fault
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 78
                    Mileage: 144200 km
                    Date: 2024.03.17
                    Time: 11:25:16


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 937 086 J    HW: 5K0 937 086 J
   Component: BCM PQ35 M    011 0046
   Revision: BC011001
   Coding: 48180A3B8825F3C040080080B400012443513088536D8D605C8000000040
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 3B7582EBBA65A94BDE-806E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 5N1 955 119 A  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 260111 03  32  0010
   Coding: 009795

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
   Component: RLS 030211 05  54  0403
   Coding: 03304D

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K8 951 171
   Component: DWA-Sensor 00  001 0104
   Coding: 000000

3 Faults Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 105
                    Mileage: 144200 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.08.08
                    Time: 11:25:18

             Freeze Frame:
                        Term 15 On
                    Voltage: 13.90 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF

01518 - Bulb for Back-Up Lights; Left (M16)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 57
                    Mileage: 145745 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.08.08
                    Time: 13:04:06

             Freeze Frame:
                        Term 15 On
                    Voltage: 13.75 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        ON

01519 - Bulb for Back-Up Lights; Right (M17)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 84
                    Reset counter: 32
                    Mileage: 144200 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.08.08
                    Time: 11:29:52

             Freeze Frame:
                        Term 15 On
                    Voltage: 13.75 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        ON


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:. 3C8-919-475.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 919 475 C    HW: 5N0 919 475
   Component: PARKHILFE 4K  H07 0026
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 65631100708542
   Coding: 108102
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 397998E3B0599B5BCC-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 5N0-959-655.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 655 R    HW: 5N0 959 655 R
   Component: J234__200 VW10 HI   1918
   Revision: 22014000    Serial number: 003K0PQ5UF0
   Coding: 0012336
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 4C97D1372FCB1EF367-8018

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MTS604830181

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MTS696380171

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HTS65RN2M9KR

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HTS6NO6VM9KR

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 00000000000000000

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 00000000000000000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:| 5K0-953-569.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 501 AT    HW: 5K0 953 569 H
   Component: LENKS.MODUL   014 0140
   Revision: FF010040    Serial number: 20110206300183
   Coding: 1982140000
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_VW360SteerWheelUDS A03004
   ROD: EV_VW360SteerWheelUDS.rod
   VCID: 7CF741F7F7EB6E7397-8028

   Multifunction steering wheel control module:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 542 A    HW: 5K0 959 542 A  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
   Component: E221__MFL-TAS  H07 0013
   Coding: 820000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 5N0 920 872     HW: 5N0 920 872
   Component: KOMBI         H20 0420
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 110E01
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04089
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
   VCID: 6FED66BBB69D05EB22-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 C    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway H37 0614
   Revision:   H37       Serial number: 050211F1001667
   Coding: 356002
   Shop #: WSC 00777 998 179970
   VCID: 306FA5C763235A137B-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing        Labels: 1Kx-919-xxx-1C.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 919 879     HW: 5N0 919 879
   Component: Kompass         001 0001
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 1225223RBXP206
   Coding: 0000002
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 7EF34BFF29F77C63B9-802A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD        Labels: 0AY-907-554-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 0AY 907 554 D    HW: 0AY 907 554 D
   Component: Haldex 4Motion      0042
   Coding: 0000005
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 4C97D1372FCB1EF367-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234
   Component: IMMO          H20 0420
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03008
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
   VCID: 6ADB77AF8D7FE0C375-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MAX3.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 701 E    HW: 5N0 959 701 E
   Component: Tuer-SG         009 2112
   Coding: 0004286
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 377D9EDB464D8D2B3A-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 5N1-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 5N1 909 144 L    HW: 5N1 909 148 G
   Component: J500__APA-BS KL.286 0802
   Revision: 1AH03831    Serial number: 00110220033001
   Coding: 0000258
   Shop #: WSC 00777 998 05497
   VCID: 3B7582EB7A65A94BDE-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MAX3.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 702 E    HW: 5N0 959 702 E
   Component: Tuer-SG         009 2111
   Coding: 0004542
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 387F9DE74B53825333-806C

3 Faults Found:
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
            014 - Defective
02071 - Local Databus
            004 - No Signal/Communication
00110 - Right Mirror Turn Signal Lamp (L132)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake        Labels: 3AA-907-801.clb
   Part No SW: 3AA 907 801 D    HW: 3AA 907 801 D
   Component: J540 EPB4  VW-53083 0006
   Revision:   H18       Serial number: 00000000025538
   Coding: 0023057
   Shop #: WSC 00046 000 00000
   VCID: 326BAFCFAD2F68030D-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J0503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 035 190     HW: 5K0 035 190
   Component: Radio RCD510  041 0167
   Revision: 00000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z3L5175252
   Coding: 0500041004
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 62CB1F8F7D4FB883BD-8036

2 Faults Found:
00871 - Bass Speaker Front Right (R23)
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 157
                    Mileage: 144200 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.08.08
                    Time: 11:45:05

03138 - Input AUX IN
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 105
                    Mileage: 144200 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2018.08.08
                    Time: 11:25:32


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 703 D    HW: 5N0 959 703 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         007 2102
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
   VCID: 387F9DE74B53825333-806C

1 Fault Found:
00937 - Switch for Electric Window; Rear Left (E52)
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 704 D    HW: 5N0 959 704 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         007 2102
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
   VCID: 397998E370599B5BCC-806C

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:45)--------------------------
 
Last edited:
   #4  
SaVAGeSoot

SaVAGeSoot

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 9, 2022
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
844
Location
ON, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=568688
kronner2 said:
When I look a the OBDII part, the screen has at least those 2 lines in red. (I guess catalyst monitoring also.) Unfortunately, this was one of the first vehicles I used VCDS with in a long time, so I was too clumsy to make a screenshot or proper log.

obd2mode101.png



Code: 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CCT)       Labels:. 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
   Part No SW: 06J 906 026 CT    HW: 06J 906 026 AF
   Component: MED17.5 TFSI 2,0    6996
   Revision: AAH18---    Serial number:           
   Coding: 0423010A190F0160
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 7EF34BFF29F77C63B9-802A
   VINID: 9E65E398615E0D29C5103080247E51B326

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:45)--------------------------
Click to expand...

Did you take the scan pre driving it or post?
The no code and readiness shown in the scan say there's no issues.
I still don't understand why you think there's no lambda sensors. Try logging the sensor values... that should tell you if they read or not....
 
   #5  
K

kronner2

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
2
Location
Germany
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=391832
Thank you for your encouragement.
I did the scan before driving the car, maybe that is the problem.
But the last time DTC was reset was like >1000 km ago. I thought that readiness depends more on available past drive cycles than the engine being warm.
Cars with a Lambda delete seem to be showing just like this one did, with no errors from the ECU, because it has been reprogrammed.


I have to make a decision about the car tomorrow, so this helps.

I will look at the sensor values in OBDII read mode:
24 Bank 1 Sensor 1 Status and
25 Bank 1 Sensor 2 status
How do I know they are working?
 
   #6  
SaVAGeSoot

SaVAGeSoot

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 9, 2022
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
844
Location
ON, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=568688
I'm not understanding what you're asking.
Go into MVBs and look at the values as you drive. (or log them)
If values fluctuate\change, the sensor must exist and read.... if it's constant or zero, it must be "tuned" out or whatever your concern is.
 
   #7  
Zenerdiode

Zenerdiode

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
1,436
Reaction score
2,156
Location
Newcastle, England
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=24330
Even though there are no faults shown in the ECU, clear faults and then do another Auto-Scan and OBD2 generic screenshot. If the catalyst monitors are set immediately after the fault clearance, somebody’s fiddled with the ECU.
 
   #8  
K

kronner2

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
2
Location
Germany
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=391832
Zenerdiode said:
Even though there are no faults shown in the ECU, clear faults and then do another Auto-Scan and OBD2 generic screenshot. If the catalyst monitors are set immediately after the fault clearance, somebody’s fiddled with the ECU.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Just to clarify: Immediately after the fault clear, the catalyst monitoring should NOT say 'passed', it would need some driving.
If it said 'passed' immediately, something has been modified.

My problem is a bit reverse: it never says passed, probably because the tuners here don't bother since there's no emissions testing.
I will try this anyway and see what happens.
 
   #9  
R

Ronaldo

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
147
Reaction score
146
Location
Brazil
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=357813
kronner2 said:
Hello,

I'm used car shopping Tiguans with VCDS in Brazil and it's a horror movie.
...
Is there a good way to check for fuel consumption with VCDS during a test drive?
Or a simple practical method, like getting a tank gauge reading, putting in 5l and driving till they are used up?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I suppose you're aware that fuel consumption will never match factory specs because Brazilian gas has at least 25% alcohol in its composition (no matter if it's Standard or "Premium", "Podium", "Grid" or whatever name they they have in the pumps) right? Also, I don't think 5l will allow for a precise gauge reading. Maybe you need a full fuel tank to notice a difference, except of course if fuel consumption in the car is way too high.
 
   #10  
K

kronner2

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
2
Location
Germany
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=391832
Ronaldo said:
I suppose you're aware that fuel consumption will never match factory specs because Brazilian gas has at least 25% alcohol in its composition (no matter if it's Standard or "Premium", "Podium", "Grid" or whatever name they they have in the pumps) right? Also, I don't think 5l will allow for a precise gauge reading. Maybe you need a full fuel tank to notice a difference, except of course if fuel consumption in the car is way too high.
Click to expand...

I think I wasn't aware at the time of writing this question, but now I am. Thanks for pointing it out. The bad fuel also seems to cause carbonisation inside the engine.

On my shopping tour, I have already seen quite big idle consumption differences in the display (no AC):
from 2.1 l/h to 1.1 l/h

for the same 2.0l TSI engine...

I did give up on the fuel consumption test, after all, and just bought a generally well maintained car.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top