Cheaters? Recalls? Discuss

   #626  

Jack@European_Parts

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https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wir...ues-split-rulings-vw-diesel-cheating-67366810

German court issues split rulings over VW diesel cheating


A German appeals court has ruled in several lawsuits against automaker Volkswagen over software it used to cheat diesel emissions tests, saying consumers who bought the cars unknowingly deserve compensation but those who purchased them later don’t
A German appeals court has ruled in several lawsuits against automaker Volkswagen, saying consumers who unknowingly bought cars with software installed to cheat diesel emissions tests deserve compensation but those who purchased them later don’t.
The Stuttgart appeals court ruled Thursday plaintiffs could demand repayment of the purchase price, minus a portion for usage, for cars bought between 2013-2015.

The scandal came to light when U.S. authorities announced the violation in September 2015. It has cost Volkswagen some 30 billion euros ($33 billion) in fines, recalls and settlements, and several former executives have faced legal repercussions.
The court rejected damage claims from plaintiffs who purchased vehices in 2016, saying Volkswagen’s announcements after the scandal broke were “sufficient in content and scope to inform the public.”
The rulings can be appealed.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-11-27/los-angeles-auto-show-vw-q-a

[h=1]L.A. Auto Show: VW America’s chief has a plan to move past the emissions scandal[/h]
 
   #629  

Jack@European_Parts

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Yeah they seem like they want to move to deny all things now again huh, I guess we will see how that works out, right?
 
   #631  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #634  

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   #635  

Jack@European_Parts

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Let me be the Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Let's assume the court rules that what VW did was indeed illegal. How were the owners of these cars, who are now the plaintiffs in this class-action, harmed? Lower re-sale value?


Well let's see.....?
Didn't the consumers get lied to and entered into a contractual agreement for consideration under a false pretense and forward expectations of investment, while the parties didn't have a meeting of the minds & through wilful wanton nefarious widespread fraud & said information being withheld and people indeed paid up for TDI and that fraud was admittedly stipulated too, no?
 
   #636  

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Well let's see.....?
Didn't the consumers get lied to and entered into a contractual agreement for consideration under a false pretense and forward expectations of investment, while the parties didn't have a meeting of the minds & through wilful wanton nefarious widespread fraud & said information being withheld and people indeed paid up for TDI and that fraud was admittedly stipulated too, no?
In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm? Show me the actual harm to the people who purchased these cars.

FWIW, I love my "cheating" TDI. I don't feel harmed in the slightest. :p

-Uwe-
 
   #637  

Bruce

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In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm?
In the days past, I believe you are correct about making claims... in the new norm of this world? I think most anything goes.

There is some harm in my opinion. Once corrected, the car will not get the efficiency originally stated.. That means to operate the car, the owner will now have higher fuel costs. That seems to be harm if the advertised fuel economy cannot be achieved while meeting the environmental rules.

That said, none of what I have written appears to be part of the complaint! In what is documented in the article, I agree with Uwe... there is no harm... I wonder why they do not focus on the lower fuel economy and instead are focused on "the poisoning of the public with NOx." Color me not understanding the legal precedents!
 
   #638  

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I wonder why they do not focus on the lower fuel economy and instead are focused on "the poisoning of the public with NOx." Color me not understanding the legal precedents!
The UK courts (and the media and government) are much more easily persuaded by issues relating to supposed harm to people and the environment than to the increased financial cost to owners resulting from 'the fix'. Hence why the Class action is focussing on environmental issues not financial issues - the lawyers believe they have a greater chance of persuading the judge(s) to find in their favour.

It's a funny old world...
 
   #639  

Jack@European_Parts

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In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm? Show me the actual harm to the people who purchased these cars.

FWIW, I love my "cheating" TDI. I don't feel harmed in the slightest.

-Uwe-
Don't you think that you, as well as consumers worldwide and the market in general has been disrupted?

Have you considered how RT has suffered directly or indirectly by the TDI issues, for example all the cars that were bought back took VCDS cables in circulation to be resold as used, further diluting a market which also became non existent for services you provide in paid tech people you employ and those potential customers were temporarily squashed?

Liking how the vehicle performs and drives is one thing and I happen to agree with that part.

I don't agree and take issue with how VAG is making things harder to fix, with vague release of data in the RTFB or how it's not disseminated in the scanner via ODIS by deploying such algorithmic mechanism's, especially hiding behind an alleged high security component & when we all know that is bullshit!
 
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