2006 Jetta BRM Injector Issue? Rough Idle

   #1  

Amacrubicon

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I have a 2006 Jetta BRM TDI, I recently replaced the cam, bearings, lifters, timing belt, water pump, glow plugs with new harness and finally injector seals. All this work was preformed at the same time, I got the car back up and running and it ran reasonably well for the first week. After that the car started to run rough at warm idle, its slowly gotten worse over the last week. I am now getting a cylinder 4 misfire code, sometimes when the car is warm if you blip the throttle a touch it will start to surge and the will smooth out.

looking at group 13 I've watched the valves slowly get worse all while trying to research and find out what those values are telling me. I've long time worked on cars but this is my first German car and first diesel, I've tried searching but I cant find a good write up for diagnosing injector issues.

Any help is greatly appreciated!


Code:
Tuesday,07,November,2023,15:20:10:54093
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 23.11.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20231027 DS351.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 3VWDT81K16M693610   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 62 72 7D

VIN: 3VWDT81K16M693610   Mileage: 522440km-324629miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
   Part No SW: 03G 906 016 AB    HW: 028 101 223 8
   Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG  7550  
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number: VWZ7Z0E2663537
   Coding: 0050071
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6393BE0807588CC2521-8036
   VINID: 0E69D490805B04674624318100D333420E

4 Faults Found:
000280 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62) 
               P0118 - 000 - Signal too High - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 35
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 522246 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:45:07

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 819 /min
                    Speed: 21.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 14.36 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00101111
                    Temperature: 63.9°C
                    Temperature: 63.0°C

012545 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157) 
               P3101 - 000 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 522250 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:48:03

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 945 /min
                    Speed: 36.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 14.36 V
                    Mass Air / Rev.: 270.0 mg/str
                    Duty Cycle: 90.0 %
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
               P2015 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 95
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 522254 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:50:29

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2037 /min
                    Speed: 74.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 14.36 V
                    Mass Air / Rev.: 300.0 mg/str
                    Duty Cycle: 84.0 %
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000

000772 - Cylinder 4 
               P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 22
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 522349 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 06:56:13

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 798 /min
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 14.29 V
                    Inj. Quantity: 2.96 mg/str
                    Temperature: 75.6°C
                    (no units): 0.0

Readiness: 1 4 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 Q    HW: 1K0 907 379 Q
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Revision: 00T12001    
   Coding: 0021122
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 40D95184B68EF7DA6F3-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 820 047 DG
   Component: Climatic PQ35   090 0505  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 6C81D534EA86C3BAE3B-8038

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 D    HW: 3C0 937 049 D
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H37 1002  
   Revision: 00H37000    Serial number: 00000000174114
   Coding: 10018E234004180000140000001400000008730B5C
   Shop #: WSC 93200 999 57723
   VCID: 2A0D132C20F21D8A517-807E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 C  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer VW350  012  0402  
   Coding: 00065493
   Shop #: WSC 93200  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 E    HW: 1K0 909 605 E
   Component: 1R AIRBAG VW8R  024 6300  
   Revision: 03024000    Serial number: 0037KD041139  
   Coding: 0012626
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2E051F3C1C1A71AA8DF-807A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 959 339 E
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0005

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6332MSME0B601500.

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6342MSME0B570647C

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6351HSME081A4A0CC

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 6361HSME081B071D9

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63727SME071F1156$

   Subsystem 7 - Serial number: 63827SME076B576BE

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AH    HW: 1K0 953 549 AH
   Component: J0527           034 0070  
   Coding: 0000021
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 78A9F964AEDE7F1A173-802C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 920 852 D
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 1212  
   Coding: 0023303
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2A0D132C20F21D8A517-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 F    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: Gateway         H10 0120  
   Revision:   H10       Serial number: 2800105804859B
   Coding: 3D3F0B40071002
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2A0D132C20F21D8A517-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No: 1K0 920 852 D
   Component: IMMO            3HL 1212  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2A0D132C20F21D8A517-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2377  
   Coding: 0001269
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3635375CE44A496AC5F-8062

2 Faults Found:
01552 - Motor for Central Locking; Drivers Door (V56); Lock 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V2.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 J
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5   D04 1606  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 323D0B4C0822554AE97-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
   Part No: 1K0 959 433 AF
   Component:    KSG              0401  
   Coding: 137803281B09050F880F048051A0
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 74B1CD54B2B61B7A3BB-8020

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted     

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted     

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted     

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2377  
   Coding: 0001269
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 372B3A58E340B062DE9-8062

2 Faults Found:
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148) 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00110 - Right Mirror Turn Signal Lamp (L132) 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-161.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 161 A    HW: 1K0 035 161 A
   Component: Radio DE2       012 0014  
   Revision: 00012000    Serial number: VWZ4Z7E6049061
   Coding: 0040400
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 1D67C8F061BCFA32245-8048

1 Fault Found:
00870 - Bass Speaker Front Left (R21) 
            011 - Open Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 703 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2434  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 313F04400D246E5290D-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 704 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2434  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 323D0B4C0822554AE97-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat        Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E    HW: 1K0 963 235 E
   Component: PTC-Element         0404  
   Revision: 00800000    Serial number:               
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2D071830111C0AB2B45-8078

1 Fault Found:
00361 - Heater Element for Auxiliary Heater (Z35) 
            014 - Defective

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:07, VBatt start/end: 14.3V/14.4V)-----------
 
   #2  

Amacrubicon

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Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation

-3.01 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 1

0.73 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 2

-2.40 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 3

2.99 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 4
 
   #3  

EuroX

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With those miles It could be anything. I would start at looking at injector quantity or carbon in the intake.
 
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Amacrubicon

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With those miles It could be anything. I would start at looking at injector quantity or carbon in the intake.
What do I look at for injector quantity?? I don’t see how carbon could cause this, I’m more leaning towards an electrical issue more than likely the engine harness.
 
   #5  

EuroX

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If you have a rough or surging idle and it seems like its down on power most likely cause would be injectors if you ask me. However checking the injectors is what I would do. I would do a resistance measurement on each injectors and compare the results to cyl#4. If something is a miss I will assume it should stand out like a sore thumb in terms of resistance measurement reading.

Kermatdi in Idaho does injector rebuilds and testing as well as horsepower tuning to get more power out also. With those miles I would not be surprised if there was an injector issue or leaking injector perhaps.
 
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   #6  

Amacrubicon

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That’s what I was thinking of doing, if I had the plug wiring I would test it from there. I think I’ll just pull the valve cover and double check everything since completing the work.
 
   #7  

Larry Manton

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Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation

-3.01 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 1

0.73 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 2

-2.40 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 3

2.99 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 4
If I read this right, and don't know acronym mg/str, suspect miligram, just a guess.

But appears cyl 4 almost double to the positive of cyl 1.

Dirty, plugged, compensating for compression difference, just hip shooting, but adjusting for anomaly with feed, JMO.

I guess, and don't get mad, might feed it some sea foam. In my cummins, fill filter, run it for about a minute on seafoam, then shut if down and sit for a few hours, sometimes kills the carbon on the nose of the injector, just a thought and would certainly put a can in the tank. Are other products, but sometimes works.

Replaced injector seals. Not familiar with this but is there a seal at the bottom like mercedes. Did the injector get seated??, and finally did you get the old seal out??, don't ask me how I know as it was painful.
 
   #8  

Uwe

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I guess with 325,000 miles it's not surprising that injector deviations vary from +2.99 to -3.01. That's a huge difference.

Has a compression test been done?

-Uwe-
 
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Amacrubicon

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She’s got a few miles that’s for sure, compression test is on the board to get done this weekend will Report back when it’s done. The funny part is that the deviations were good after the work I completed, then slowly started getting worse then eventually threw a misfire code for #4.
 
   #10  

Larry Manton

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She’s got a few miles that’s for sure, compression test is on the board to get done this weekend will Report back when it’s done. The funny part is that the deviations were good after the work I completed, then slowly started getting worse then eventually threw a misfire code for #4.
Just a thought. spray some soap on the glow plug and injector. As it ran good for a while, is #4 not seated, or backed out, like a loose spark plug, cheap quick test.
 
   #11  

Amacrubicon

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I will be doing a check as I go for compression the injectors are under the valve cover so checking them for leaks will come after that. Could be the harness as well with its milage who knows if it’s been changed.
 
   #12  

Amacrubicon

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Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation

-3.01 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 1

0.73 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 2

-2.40 mg/str

Injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 3

2.99 mg/str injection Quantity

Deviation Cyl. 4

this was incorrect something happened copying it to the forum

proper injector values at idle
Cylinder 1 -2.68
Cylinder 2 -0.35
Cylinder 3 -2.09
Cylinder 4 2.99

Also preformed a warm engine compression test this afternoon
Cylinder 1 391 PSI
Cylinder 2 333 PSI
Cylinder 3 362 PSI
Cylinder 4 333 PSI

So I'm within the 75 PSI spec between cylinders

I'm going to replace the injector seals again to see if that changes anything other than that I was thinking wiring harness or the injectors.
 
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Amacrubicon

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Here is a link to a video of me running the car with a group 13 reading
 
   #14  

Ballyreagh

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Take the rocker cover off check injector 4 is seated and plugged in properly as already mentioned. If it is then change it as I suspect it to be bad. I've seen before when the electric line fails but never when it only gives a bad reading for one injector. Try not and drive too far with a bad injector as it can do damage. To confirm quickly you can also change injector 3 and 4 around and see if it reports 3 as bad. If so change injector and if not then it's possible head damage.
 
   #15  

Jetta 97

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this was incorrect something happened copying it to the forum

proper injector values at idle
Cylinder 1 -2.68
Cylinder 2 -0.35
Cylinder 3 -2.09
Cylinder 4 2.99

Also preformed a warm engine compression test this afternoon
Cylinder 1 391 PSI
Cylinder 2 333 PSI
Cylinder 3 362 PSI
Cylinder 4 333 PSI

So I'm within the 75 PSI spec between cylinders

I'm going to replace the injector seals again to see if that changes anything other than that I was thinking wiring harness or the injectors.
Most common problem on those cars when you do anything on injectors, will be connectors , Pins gets loose and that is 90% of the time problem.
So before you do anything I would squeeze pins at each injector . You will need to open plastic connector and remove each wire then squeeze it with needle nose or similar pliers .

I have done this many times and fixed 9 out of 10 cars where dealer called for Injector replacement.
 
   #16  

Amacrubicon

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Well I figured it out! I pulled the valve cover to look at the injector wiring plugs of course I broke the tabs for the pins and jammed a pick right into my finger….ouch! So now I’m thinking great I’m shutdown until I can get a new harness, so I’m looking around and notice the injector spring for #4 looks really close to the injector rocker.

I pulled the injector rockers off for #3 & #4 and when I did the spring came off with it, I have no idea how that happens. So now I’m thinking great now I need both a harness and a new injector & SOL for a ride to work great…

Now I’m thinking what to do and I look up the upull parts place near me they have an 06 TDI but they close in an hour. 25min later I’m in the scrap yard pulling parts of a car with similar miles, I got the injector harness for 8.55 and the injectors were 8.55 I ended up with 4 what seem to be original 2006 injectors and the harness for real cheap oh ya and CAD funds lol.

Replaced the seals on one of them and installed it with the new to me harness, primed the system and off she went! My values are now acceptable I would say and the car runs so much better now.

Current values after a 2 minute run down the street
Cyl 1 -0.31 mg/str
Cyl 2 0.56 mg/str
Cyl 3 0.16 mg/str
Cyl 4 -0.42 mg/str

I’ll be keeping a eye on things with the laptop over the next few days but thanks to all who replied next I’ll be tackling replacing the turbo actuator which has a blown actuator time to start researching the best way to get that done.

If I can figure out how to get pictures uploaded I’ll post a few of the bad injector.
 
   #17  

Uwe

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If I can figure out how to get pictures uploaded I’ll post a few of the bad injector.

-Uwe-
 
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