Resolved New Thread for Old Problem but different - Mk5 GTI w/DSG

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   #1  

jamesmccanna

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I recently have posted about this car and have resolved all known issues but I am still having troubles. I have had the Mechatronic repaired by ECU Testing in England.

When I drive the car, after it has warmed up, I start getting fluttering PRNDS lights. I say fluttering because it is different than when the mechatronic in this was bad. They are NOT "flashing" but are fluttering back and forth.

When I get the fluttering there is sometimes a significant amount of sluggishness. Pulling over and cycling the ignition does not seem to do much. The fluttering mostly occurs when I accelerate hard in 2nd up to 3rd in Drive but it occurs in TT and/or Sport mode too.

Here is the deal, I am getting no DTC's for the engine or DSG. A while back I got a couple of P1740 codes. I had forgotten to do the DSG basic settings in VCDS. And I located all the grounds and refitting them to the chassis. Those have not appeared in the last several days, even when I am pushing the car. So, I checked the transmission temperature after the fluttering and it was at 85C.

Here is the complete scan I just ran after the car showed these symptoms. I have worked so hard through so much with this car I feel I am close. I did log the drive but do not yet know how to access the file. Not sure what I am doing in that area.

Is it possible that it is related to the radio faults?

Here is the scan:

Code:
Friday,17,March,2023,16:57:32:65344
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 23.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4631.4
Data version: 20230228 DS346.1
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWFV71K08W188421   License Plate:
Mileage: 180550km-112188mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 1C 25 42 44 46 4F 52 55 56 65

VIN: WVWFV71K08W188421   Mileage: 180550km-112188miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
65-Tire Pressure -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels:. 06F-907-115-AXX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 S    HW: 8P0 907 115 B
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0020
   Revision: 5BH16---    Serial number: VWX7Z0GN3NL85R
   Coding: 0403010A1C070160
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 36352BCEA44889BAE5F-8062
   VINID: 9E69D698705B0089C12081020445D0DF0D

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 050 J    HW: 02E 927 770 AD
   Component: GSG DSG         082 1409
   Revision: 04808020    Serial number: 00000907150831
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 04940 001 00001
   VCID: 196FC072359646C2E8D-804C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AC    HW: 1K0 907 379 AC
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101
   Revision: 00H11001  
   Coding: 0021122
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 73B3D2DAF7BADC92021-8026

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 820 047 HH    HW: 1K0 820 047 HH
   Component: Climatic PQ35   141 1010
   Revision: 00141028    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 71BFD8D28DA6EE82F0D-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 AJ    HW: 3C0 937 049 AJ
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2202
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000007807370
   Coding: 178D0F214004150047140000001400000028770B5C000100000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 25162 444 85710
   VCID: 71BFD8D28DA6EE82F0D-8024

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 231107 021  0501
   Coding: 00038805
   Shop #: WSC 25162

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 AB    HW: 1K0 909 605 AB
   Component: 6K AIRBAG VW8R  034 8000
   Revision: 05034000    Serial number: 003B6D0A0DAN
   Coding: 0013899
   Shop #: WSC 01269 785 00200
   VCID: 6C81C9A6AA84036AC3B-8038

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 959 339 G
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 007 0007

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6332MSME2B624C7ET

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6342MSME2B624935E

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6352QSME3A1C3509K

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 6362QSME432F1E3BV

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63727SME12100235H

   Subsystem 7 - Serial number: 63827SME12100560J

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BG    HW: 1K0 953 549 BG
   Component: J0527           051 0100
   Coding: 0012122
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 78A9E5F6EEDCBFCA373-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           002 0010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K6 920 974 A    HW: 1K6 920 974 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1216
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0GN3NL85R
   Coding: 0007203
   Shop #: WSC 01287 785 00200
   VCID: 323D17DE4820959AC97-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 L    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway   H07 0052
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 121107F2000707
   Coding: ED811F070012030000
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 30391DD6462CA78ABF3-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing        Labels: 1Kx-919-xxx-1C.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K6 919 879     HW: 1K6 919 879
   Component: Kompass         001 0003
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 1225223T29YE03
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 7DA7F4E2C1FE9AE2645-8028

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 1K6 920 974 A    HW: 1K6 920 974 A
   Component: IMMO            VDD 1216
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0GN3NL85R
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 323D17DE4820959AC97-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 M    HW: 1K0 959 701 M
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1207
   Coding: 0001077
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 382925F6AE5C7FCAF73-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V3.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 M
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.074 H08 1901
   Shop #: WSC 00000 028 00001
   VCID: 35372CC2B94E82A2EC5-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 CT    HW: 1K0 959 433 CT
   Component:    KSG PQ35 RDK 052 0221
   Revision: 00052000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 1B9006885103281B0904058FB0080A04889C00
   Shop #: WSC 25162 444 85710
   VCID: 04518106A214EB2A2BB-8050

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted   

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted   

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted   

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II (J533)       Labels:. 1K0-907-532.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 532     HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway H07 0052
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 121107F2000707
   Coding: 00000000
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 6695BB8EB868393A95F-8032

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 M    HW: 1K0 959 702 M
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1207
   Coding: 0001076
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 392F20F2955666C208D-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 1T0-907-357.lbl
   Part No: 1T0 907 357
   Component: Dynamische LWR      0003
   Coding: 0000003
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 74B1D1C6F2B4DBAA1BB-8020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 180 L    HW: 1K0 035 180 L
   Component: Radio PM6       019 0035
   Revision: 00019000    Serial number: VWZ5Z7G2191007
   Coding: 0040401
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 290FF0B265F6D64278D-807C

4 Faults Found:
02218 - Satellite Radio (R146)
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 141
                    Mileage: 180525 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:50:33

00870 - Bass Speaker Front Left (R21)
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 141
                    Mileage: 180525 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:50:29

00872 - Bass Speaker Rear Left (R15)
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 141
                    Mileage: 180525 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:50:29

00856 - Radio Antenna
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 141
                    Mileage: 180525 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 07:50:38


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure        Labels: 3C0-959-433-65.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 CT    HW: 1K0 959 433 CT
   Component:    RDK              0450
   Revision: 00052000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0100101
   Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
   VCID: 04518106A214EB2A2BB-8050

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:11, VBatt start/end: 12.4V/12.3V)-----------
 
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   #2  

Larry Manton

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Contents​

18148/P1740/005952 - Clutch Temperature Monitoring​

Possible Symptoms

  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
  • Transmission in Limp Mode
  • Clutch overheating

Possible Causes​

  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Clutch Temperature Sensor (G509) faulty
  • Clutch Temperature Sensor (G509) faulty

Possible Solutions​

  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Clutch Temperature Sensor (G509)
  • Check/Replace Clutch Temperature Sensor (G509)

Special Notes​

  • When found in 6-Speed Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG/02E), check VW NAR TSB 37-06-07 (2012681):
    • May be stored in Combination with 17100/P0716/001814, which usually indicates faulty Wiring/Connector(s). Check/Replace Wiring and Connector(s) from/to Transmission Input Speed Sensor (G182) AND Clutch Temperature Sensor (G509)
  • When found in 7-Speed S-Tronic Direct-Shift Gearbox (DSG/0B5):
    • RoW (Rest of World) check TPIs 2039534 and 2022497.
      • May be stored in conjunction with: P1740, P174E, P174A, P179D, P179C, P174F, P174B, P0726 and/or P17D8
    • NAR (North American Region) market, check 2030477.
Category:

Navigation menu​

Categories​

Tools​


Unless otherwise noted, it states first sentence, ( which usually indicates faulty Wiring/Connector(s)).all content on this site is Copyright © 2000-2017 by Ross-Tech LLC. All rig

Okay, you mentioned this code, and seems pretty specific although stated is not there now. You replace the megatronics but this is mechanical specific and is the clutch slipping or bad?

Although IMO the flashing of PDR in the selector is indicative of a connection somewhere, and may be hard to spot. Possible if connection is bad may not send proper trans temperature also.

I don't know in this case how VW does it but in many cars fault has to occur a certain number of times before it is actually flagged.

I'm still leaning to a connection error that occurred during mechatronic replacement.

Larimore.
 
   #3  

Uwe

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Although IMO the flashing of PDR in the selector is indicative of a connection somewhere, and may be hard to spot.
Agreed, and quite possible inside the mechatronic.

I have no faith at all in any of the outfits like "ECU Testing".

-Uwe-
 
   #4  

MVB_

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Here is the complete scan I just ran after the car showed these symptoms. I have worked so hard through so much with this car I feel I am close. I did log the drive but do not yet know how to access the file. Not sure what I am doing in that area.


Take the log file CSV and drop here https://log.tunezilla.com/ post a link to that log back here.
 
   #5  

jamesmccanna

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Hello,

And thanks to all. I went autocrossing yesterday with my slightly modded 87 Golf for a Novice day. I was in the top 25% against a bunch of high-horsepower cars (Corvettes a couple of high-end Porsches, a Ford GT500, another Mustang, a new Alfa Romeo and one 800 hp Dodge Viper). It was fun, lowest horsepower but able to flow

Here is the log requested by MVB and again thanks so much I am bound and determined to get this done even if it means ultimately replacing the mechatronic (per the concerns posted by Uwe):

 
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jamesmccanna

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Agreed, and quite possible inside the mechatronic.

I have no faith at all in any of the outfits like "ECU Testing".

-Uwe-
Uwe,

I am beginning to wonder but have not been able to focus on the mechatronic given the other challenges (now solved) presented by this car. Thanks so much for your continued support and hopefully - interest. This is all so helpful and gives me a no small measure of hope. When this car runs well it is very fun. When it doesn't well . . . . . .
 
   #7  

jamesmccanna

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Hello,

I will say that I was not sure what to log while driving but chose the input speed G182 and G509 Temp Sensor, and output sensors and TT sensors and transmission temp I think. I was not sure all of what I was supposed to log.

If there are suggestions, and, assuming you all have the energy to assist, I will redo a log and capture whatever is suggested. I am studying the log and am not 100% sure what I am looking for but am willing to learn.
 
   #8  

jamesmccanna

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Hi,

Responding to my own post. I uploaded the log to tunezilla and have opened it in my browser. I see green and red lines representing the input vs. output speeds of the transmission sensors. There are largely consistent but not always. Are they supposed to be tracking closely? Secondly, I expanded the browser window and can see there are several points where the log line has a brief break in it. From that I discern, the car has lost communication with the sensor but not enough to trigger a DTC?
 
   #9  

jamesmccanna

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I am now noticing that where there is a break on the green and red lines there are breaks in the other lines too. Even though this mechatronic was repaired is it still faulty? And as I start from the beginning of the log I recall it driving well and seemingly perfect.

The first break in the lines is at about 518 seconds when the temperature reached 77 degrees C, the next break in the lines is at 603 seconds with a temperature of 79 degrees C, then there is a series of mini-breaks. All of this is consistent with my experience with the car and the fluttering PRNDS lights.

Still, there were no codes but there were symptoms.

I suspect that it is the mechatronic and possibly its circuit board malfunctioning when it gets up over 77 degrees? Is there another log I should use to confirm?
 
   #10  

jamesmccanna

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I am now noticing that where there is a break on the green and red lines there are breaks in the other lines too. Even though this mechatronic was repaired is it still faulty? And as I start from the beginning of the log I recall it driving well and seemingly perfect.

The first break in the lines is at about 518 seconds when the temperature reached 77 degrees C, the next break in the lines is at 603 seconds with a temperature of 79 degrees C, then there is a series of mini-breaks. All of this is consistent with my experience with the car and the fluttering PRNDS lights.

Still, there were no codes but there were symptoms.

I suspect that it is the mechatronic and possibly its circuit board malfunctioning when it gets up over 77 degrees? Is there another log I should use to confirm?


Or, I missed a ground somewhere possibly? But, that seems like it would be unrelated to the acceleration which seems to precede the breaks in signal. If it were a ground I would think it would be more errors overall.
 
   #11  

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You have several breaks in the graph from all the sensor logged, did you also have issue with trans that coincide with the make of this log?
 
   #12  

jamesmccanna

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Correction: The green and red lines are two different sensor logs for the G182.
 
   #13  

jamesmccanna

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You have several breaks in the graph from all the sensor logged, did you also have issue with trans that coincide with the make of this log?
Hello MVB and thanks,

Great username by the way. Yes, the breaks are wholly consistent with the symptoms I experienced Note that the breaks usually occur right after I accelerate. However, the symptoms appeared while driving on cruise control at 60 mph last week.

There is an increase in the speed of the sensor that precedes the fluttering lights. So, my uninformed theory is that the circuit board itself is known to be problematic was not completely repaired. I have read that the circuit board, when it get hot, partially delaminates and goes intermittent. Or, despite having checked the grounds I may have missed one.

The grounds seems unlikely given that the intermittent signals usually occur when I accelerate.

Interestingly I did not get any DTC codes in VCDS.
 
   #14  

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SO looking at the raw data I see no breaks based on the time stamps on the graph.
 
   #15  

jamesmccanna

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Hi,

I am not sure what that means but to see the breaks in the graph I expanded the browser window. As a newbie, I do have the .csv log but wonder if you are referring to the .csv file?
 
   #16  

jamesmccanna

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I am off to day two of autocrossing my Mk2. Will be back this evening. Thanks for looking at this.
 
   #17  

jamesmccanna

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I suppose the break in the graph could be shifts in the laptop and the usb cable as I am driving? If it isn't showing in the log that is. But if that were the case, one would think there would be an error logged if the usb momentarily became disconnected. I am definitely out of my depth on this. Thank you so much for looking at it.
 
   #18  

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The data from the log file is used for the graph, if you look below the graph the date is displayed in columns, the missing areas in the graph does appear in the data. So the graph is not correct at those points .
 
   #20  

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Thanks again. Had a great day autocrossing my dependable Mk2.

Follow up questions.

1. The red/green lines are not always tracking the same. My understanding is that they represent two tracks for the G182 sensor. If there is only one sensor why am I getting two tracks AND why would they be inconsistent?

2. Are there other sensors that I should do the same test drive and monitor? Previously, the DTC codes I was getting were related mostly to the G509 intermittent signal. Those codes went away when I resolved/reset the grounds to the chassis and I have not gotten them at all the last three test drives I did.

I feel I am close but oh so far. I will go back in and see if I missed any grounds and recheck the wires once again in the meantime. Time allowing/work allowing.
 
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