Resolved 2003 VW Eurovan - Hard Starts

Resolved
Status
Not open for further replies.
   #1  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Hello, I have a 2003 VW Eurovan. Recently it has been having intermittent difficulty starting. It cranks strong every time, but struggles to start sometimes. Once it starts it always runs just fine. No idling issues either. I cannot seem to determine repeatable conditions causing the hard start. It seems to happen with either cold or warm engine. Engine was completely rebuilt about 18 months ago and has run great since the rebuild. Spark plugs, fuel pressure regulator were new at rebuild. Fuel injectors were restored at rebuild. No idea on condition of ignition coils, fuel pump, or fuel filter. I just ran an auto scan with VCDS and there were zero error codes. Would someone be so kind to provide diagnosis suggestions? Thanks so much.

Code:
Saturday,11,February,2023,19:57:56:17995
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 22.10.0.1 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4623.4
Data version: 20221026 DS344.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   License Plate:
Mileage: 385390km-239470mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
 
VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   Mileage: 385390km-239470miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
   Part No: 022 906 032 AF
   Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1  G   0003 
   Coding: 00013
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 4FFB7BABAEC948C3228-51CE

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
   Part No: 01P 927 733 CM
   Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P    4973 
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 00598897231767BBEB2-0964

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 7D0-907-379.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 907 379 G
   Component: ESP 5.3 T4 FRONT    V39 
   Coding: 06639
   Shop #: WSC 02771 
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
   Component: AIRBAG VW3 -        V04 
   Coding: 17227
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 74B1D44767AF4B1BFFA-4B7A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 920 902 T
   Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01   
   Coding: 03235
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001 
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 70B9D85713B7773B1B2-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
   Part No: 6X0 953 257
   Component: IMMO                0008 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 22575 
   VCID: 7DA7F16354E50A53804-4B1E
   WV2NB47093H019487     VWZ1Z0B2134815

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels: 7D0-959-800.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 959 800 C
   Component:    Funksteuergerát  0001 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 2D070123C4055AD3704-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:22, VBatt start/end: 13.7V/13.7V. VIgn 0.0V)------
 
Last edited:
   #2  

JMR

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Messages
4,083
Reaction score
2,422
Location
Romania
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=432218
You could always test fuel pressure , should be around 3.5 to 4 bars at the ramp
 
   #3  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Our Eurovan is still experiencing hard starts. Below is the most recent autoscan, which is now giving me errors that weren't showing up before. I've compiled more situational specifics as to hard start conditions. They are:

  • Cold Engine - Starts fine
  • Warm Engine, started very shortly after shutting off - Starts Fine
  • Warm Engine, started after sitting for 2 plus minutes - Hard Start (5-10 seconds of continuous cranking before turning over)

Again...van runs fine after start. No misfires, no hesitation, etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.




Code:
Saturday,11,March,2023,12:31:44:17995
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 22.10.0.1 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4623.4
Data version: 20221026 DS344.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   License Plate:
Mileage: 387130km-240551mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
 
VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   Mileage: 387130km-240551miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
   Part No: 022 906 032 AF
   Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1  G   0003 
   Coding: 00013
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 4FFB7BABAEC948C3228-51A8

5 Faults Found:
16706 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
            P0322 - 35-10 - No Signal - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
            P0300 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent
16689 - Cylinder 5
            P0305 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
            P0303 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
            P0441 - 35-00 - Incorrect Flow
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
   Part No: 01P 927 733 CM
   Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P    4973 
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 00598897231767BBEB2-0964

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 7D0-907-379.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 907 379 G
   Component: ESP 5.3 T4 FRONT    V39 
   Coding: 06639
   Shop #: WSC 02771 
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
   Component: AIRBAG VW3 -        V04 
   Coding: 17227
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 74B1D44767AF4B1BFFA-4B7A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 920 902 T
   Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01   
   Coding: 03235
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001 
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 70B9D85713B7773B1B2-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
   Part No: 6X0 953 257
   Component: IMMO                0008 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 22575 
   VCID: 7DA7F16354E50A53804-4B1E
   WV2NB47093H019487     VWZ1Z0B2134815

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels: 7D0-959-800.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 959 800 C
   Component:    Funksteuergerát  0001 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 02757 
   VCID: 2D070123C4055AD3704-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:24, VBatt start/end: 13.5V/13.2V. VIgn 0.0V)------
 
   #4  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
49,792
Reaction score
34,070
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
  • Cold Engine - Starts fine
  • Warm Engine, started very shortly after shutting off - Starts Fine
  • Warm Engine, started after sitting for 2 plus minutes - Hard Start (5-10 seconds of continuous cranking before turning over)
Those symptoms sound like a vapor lock problem, which are typically a result of either a bad check-valve in the fuel system, or a bad fuel pressure regulator, either of which can allow the fuel pressure to bleed off, and without pressure, on a hot engine, some of the remaining fuel in the lines over a hot engine will boil into vapors.

However, you also have an Engine Speed Sensor fault, and although it is flagged Intermittent, I would certainly chase that down first.

-Uwe-
 
   #5  

Euro2003

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=48680
Our Eurovan is still experiencing hard starts. Below is the most recent autoscan, which is now giving me errors that weren't showing up before. I've compiled more situational specifics as to hard start conditions. They are:

  • Cold Engine - Starts fine
  • Warm Engine, started very shortly after shutting off - Starts Fine
  • Warm Engine, started after sitting for 2 plus minutes - Hard Start (5-10 seconds of continuous cranking before turning over)

Again...van runs fine after start. No misfires, no hesitation, etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.




Code:
Saturday,11,March,2023,12:31:44:17995
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 22.10.0.1 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4623.4
Data version: 20221026 DS344.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   License Plate:
Mileage: 387130km-240551mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
 
VIN: WV2NB47093H019487   Mileage: 387130km-240551miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
   Part No: 022 906 032 AF
   Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1  G   0003
   Coding: 00013
   Shop #: WSC 02757
   VCID: 4FFB7BABAEC948C3228-51A8

5 Faults Found:
16706 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
            P0322 - 35-10 - No Signal - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
            P0300 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent
16689 - Cylinder 5
            P0305 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
            P0303 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
            P0441 - 35-00 - Incorrect Flow
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
   Part No: 01P 927 733 CM
   Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P    4973
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 00598897231767BBEB2-0964

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 7D0-907-379.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 907 379 G
   Component: ESP 5.3 T4 FRONT    V39
   Coding: 06639
   Shop #: WSC 02771
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
   Component: AIRBAG VW3 -        V04
   Coding: 17227
   Shop #: WSC 02757
   VCID: 74B1D44767AF4B1BFFA-4B7A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 920 902 T
   Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01  
   Coding: 03235
   Shop #: WSC 02757
   VCID: 353729432C551213084-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 02757
   VCID: 70B9D85713B7773B1B2-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
   Part No: 6X0 953 257
   Component: IMMO                0008
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 22575
   VCID: 7DA7F16354E50A53804-4B1E
   WV2NB47093H019487     VWZ1Z0B2134815

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels: 7D0-959-800.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 959 800 C
   Component:    Funksteuergerát  0001
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 02757
   VCID: 2D070123C4055AD3704-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:24, VBatt start/end: 13.5V/13.2V. VIgn 0.0V)------
I own the same van and 100 kmiles ago, I had a similar issue, also with no codes. Without going into great details, as Uwe stated, you may have a bad check valve internal to the fuel pump. Mine had that at about 227 kmiles. Other possibilities are the internal (inside the fuel tank) fuel lines may have a pinhole leak. Beware, a number of folks have had a new issue occur when the fuel pump was replaced, caused by a faulty overload ”switch” internal to the (new) pump. I mention this as although it’s rare I know of over a half dozen cases wher Eurovan fuel pumps have been replaced over several years. Very difficult to diagnose. (AKA SDS Sudden Death Syndrome).
best of luck on yours.
Phil B. 2003 EV WE 328 kmiles
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Uwe
   #6  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Thank you. I am grateful for all the feedback and also the new engine codes. As Uwe suggested, I'm gonna start with the engine speed sensor, which should be easy and inexpensive to replace. If that doesn't fix the problem, then I will replace the fuel pump. We actually have two of this exact same 2003 Eurovan and I've already replaced the fuel pump on the other. It is kind of a time consuming job. I'll report back results. Thanks again!
 
   #7  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
49,792
Reaction score
34,070
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
As Uwe suggested, I'm gonna start with the engine speed sensor, which should be easy and inexpensive to replace.
Please buy it from a reputable source, in other words, someone who specializes in VW/Audi (or even a dealer), but not someplace like Auto Zone.

-Uwe-
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMR
   #8  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Thank you for the good advice Uwe. I have learned over the years not to buy much from the national auto parts chains. Most of what I buy for our vans come from the few reputable online sources or the dealer. As you know, VW has discontinued many of the parts for these vans. Thanks again.
 
   #9  

Lgibson

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
162
Reaction score
103
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=41716
Also you might check the N80 for leaking into the intake.
 
   #10  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Thank you for the advice Lgibson. We actually have two of these vans and our other was "hard starting" about a year ago due to a failed purge valve. I did test the current problem by pinching off the hose so there was no possibility of "flooding" the intake with fuel. It didn't help the problem. I think Uwe might be correct suggesting the crankshaft position sensor being the culprit. I just replaced it the other day and found the sensor connector was soaked in engine oil from a drip. The oil likely was causing a problem with the electrical connection. I have not tested the replacement just yet because I'm still trying to fix a burst coolant hose coming off the oil cooler. I love these vans, but they can be challenging to keep running. I'll report back once I get it all back together and running. Thanks again for all the suggestions.
 
   #11  

utahjazz09

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
2
Location
Utah
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=495988
Hello to all who have chimed in and offered suggestions how to fix this warm engine hard start problem. I am happy to report that it's now fixed! Turns out it must have been a bad check valve internal to the fuel pump. I replaced the pump and it starts like a champ now. I am so happy to have this resolved. Thank you all so much for a willingness to help. Cheers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top