The oil thread

[davisev5225]

All lubrication for moving parts needs to be replaced at some point. It breaks down due to heat cycling.

You should change your diff oil while you're at it.

 

[brundozg]

isn't it the same as gearbox/transmission oil for FWD? Only AWD has additionally rear diff and it's oil needs to be changed every 60k km (Europe).
P.S. maybe I mistook the word gearbox<->transmission

 

[Uwe]

Let's add some oil to the fire - what are your thoughts about changing manual gearbox's oil? Do you find it unnecessary, good, bad or do you have some other opinion?

I've done it occasionally in older cars. Sometimes I liked the results, other times, not so much and changed the oil again to a different one soon after. All manual gearbox oils of a specific weight like 75W-80 are not the same, and a particular gearbox may or may not like a particular oil. IIRC, the biggest problem I had with one of them was hard shifting when the transmission was cold in cold weather.

isn't it the same as gearbox/transmission oil for FWD?

In a manual transmission, it should be.

-Uwe-

 

[RGH0]

I changed the oil to Castrol's 5W40, will track the consumption.
I also changed the manual gearbox's oil for the first time at 133k km (82642 miles). It's 10 minute procedure and I don't see a reason not to do it every 100k km. For 3L of the Castrol transmax manual v 75W-80 I paid 60€.

Let's add some oil to the fire - what are your thoughts about changing manual gearbox's oil? Do you find it unnecessary, good, bad or do you have some other opinion?

Depends what car what climate and what usage. But 60k kms to 80k kms for a modern full synthetic GL4 manual transmission oil is a good guide for change intervals. I use Redline MTL (75W-80) and Redline MT90 ( 75W-90) in the manual gearboxes of my cars and the change is great when cold.

 

[Skyler]

I changed the oil to Castrol's 5W40, will track the consumption.
I also changed the manual gearbox's oil for the first time at 133k km (82642 miles). It's 10 minute procedure and I don't see a reason not to do it every 100k km. For 3L of the Castrol transmax manual v 75W-80 I paid 60€.

Let's add some oil to the fire - what are your thoughts about changing manual gearbox's oil? Do you find it unnecessary, good, bad or do you have some other opinion?

I would love to hear your experience with the w40 so far!

I change oil every 15000km and I need to add at least 2.5 liters between oil changes. If I remember correctly, once between two oil changes I was topping up even 4 liters - but it was when was living in Austria, maybe had something to do with cold climate.

I change oil every 15000km as well and I go through 7 liters!

It's a 2021 Tiguan Allspace with the 147kw DTUA engine. 58000 km.

I find this oil burn insane and since it's within VW spec, I'm not sure what to do here.

 

[Uwe]

I change oil every 15000km as well and I go through 7 liters!
It's a 2021 Tiguan Allspace with the 147kw DTUA engine. 58000 km.

7 liters between oil changes? Heck, no need to change the oil! Just change the filter and call it done!

-Uwe-

 

[brundozg]

I would love to hear your experience with the w40 so far!

Since last oil change I drove 5400km. From max, oil level dropped to middle, so engine burned approx. 0.5 liter of oil. Nothing extraordinary, but only slight reduction of oil consumption.
Next oil I want to try is Ravenol full synthetic 5w-30

 

[Skyler]

7 liters between oil changes? Heck, no need to change the oil! Just change the filter and call it done!

-Uwe-

Indeed! I was shocked to find out that it was burning so much and is still within VW spec.
Luckily, the shop I purchased it from is agreeing to send it in to get diagnosed.
I'm not sure what they plan to do because they aren't doing the usual VW oil consumption test and asked me to simply leave my car with them instead.

Since last oil change I drove 5400km. From max, oil level dropped to middle, so engine burned approx. 0.5 liter of oil. Nothing extraordinary, but only slight reduction of oil consumption.
Next oil I want to try is Ravenol full synthetic 5w-30

Thanks for that. Interesting that changing to a higher weight did decrease oil burn but only to a small extent.
I'm not well versed in oil additives but what's in the Ravenol w-30 that you're hoping will have a better result (even when compared to the OEM w-30)?


I also read a few threads where they swore about Liqui Moly Cera Tec and I was wondering if it's something similar.

 

[brundozg]

reduction from 2+ liters over 15k km to approx. 1.5 is ok result, but I would still like to check if maybe oil from some other manufacturer will behave differently.
To be honest, I am not expecting any different result than Castrol 5w30, but can't know without trying it out.

CeraTec is an interesting topic, maybe I will be brave enough to also try that one out

 

[Skyler]

reduction from 2+ liters over 15k km to approx. 1.5 is ok result, but I would still like to check if maybe oil from some other manufacturer will behave differently.
To be honest, I am not expecting any different result that with Castrol 5w30, but without trying it you can never know.

CeraTec is an interesting topic, maybe I will be brave enough to also try that one out

Actually, yeah! That's over 25% reduction in the oil consumption. Seems a lot more effective looking at it this way.
Following to see your results with the Ravenol!

If the news from the mechanic is no good, I may try the CeraTec too

 

[Skyler]

Update!

When I sent my car to VW, they agreed to do an oil consumption test but if my car passed, I will need to pay for it (some €450) and if not, VW will take it from there.
(Note: The car is a little over 3 years old and I only bought it from a dealer less than a year ago so this is mostly the dealer warranty I'm banking on. All of this in Germany)

I agreed because my car was burning very close to 1 liter per 2000km anyway and if there's a good chance VW will fix an issue which could cost me thousands.

Fast forward a couple of days and I got a call informing me that they found some damage around the oil filter insert and they fixed it under VW warranty and also replaced the foam on the engine splash guard as it was soaked in oil and I don't need need to proceed with the oil consumption test as they found a leak already.

The strange thing is I never noticed any such leak and I've never heard of the filter insert being damaged and cause an oil leak before. And all of this was covered under VW warranty (and not the dealer I bought from).
Adding to that, I never got a summary of work done report from VW and I was told because it was warranty work, this also won't appear on the erWin DSS (which sounds crazy to me).

In any case, I have a couple months of warranty left and I'm going to keep a close eye on the oil consumption.

I've noted the oil level on the dipstick and also the oil level reported from diagnostics.

 

[Skyler]

So... it's been around 2000km and I'm super happy to report that my engine burnt no oil! The level on the dipstick is rock solid.
Evidently, there was a leak due to a damaged filter!

 

[The WolfMan]

For Europeans around here, if your car is stock, why change the oil every 15k km or 1 year (fixed interval, which one occurs first) and not use the VARIABLE interval that can go up to 30k km or 2 years?

These long service intervals exist for more than 20 years, but here in Portugal I see that lot of people say (without evidence) than an engine oil never lasts 30k km... In the last 20 years computers, cellphones and medicine for example have evolved a lot. If these mentioned areas/technologies evolved, it is expected that lubricants also evolve right? Why do some people don't believe in "science"? Most of them also forget that this is a variable interval and the car can ask for service much earlier that the 30k km...

Oil longevity is connected with clean combustion and clean combustion is connected with quality fuel. These long service intervals only apply to Europe where petrol is "regulated" by EN228 and diesel is "regulated" by EN590. In other countries/regions due to fuel quality and climate conditions intervals are shorter.

It's interesting to find that usually spark plugs are replaced every 60k km, nut in some African countries due to the hot climate and poor fuel quality there may be the need to replace spark plugs evry 10k km!!! I'm not inventing, anyone can check service intervals in erWin.

 

[Uwe]

These long service intervals exist for more than 20 years, but here in Portugal I see that lot of people say (without evidence) than an engine oil never lasts 30k km...

The only way to know for sure is to send a sample of your used oil to a lab for analysis.

-Uwe-

 

[brundozg]

...In the last 20 years computers, cellphones and medicine for example have evolved a lot. If these mentioned areas/technologies evolved, it is expected that lubricants also evolve right? Why do some people don't believe in "science"? ...

Preach my friend, I want to be believer in "science" too! I must admit medicine evolved the most, nowadays they make even hocus-pocus vaccines

I change oil more often than variable interval, as it can only do good for engine and I don't care about those 50€ annually... Potentially it could save me more money in the long run.

 

[The WolfMan]

The only way to know for sure is to send a sample of your used oil to a lab for analysis.

-Uwe-

I totally agree with you. But when I talk about this with other people, none of them have oil samples to support their claims.

I enjoy to spend hours on YouTube. It has content for everyone. The algorithm is fantastic and very often I get to know new channels that I find very interesting. I will share with you some videos related to the subject:

This British YouTuber took an oil sample of his car and after many kms/miles in track days. According to the analisys results, its the same thing when comparing to a normal use.

Preach my friend, I want to be believer in "science" too! I must admit medicine evolved the most, nowadays they make even hocus-pocus vaccines

I change oil more often than variable interval, as it can only do good for engine and I don't care about those 50€ annually... Potentially it could save me more money in the long run.

I see that lots of people are fixed with the 15k mark... Why not 12k ou 17k? Better yet, 5k km... Besides parts, labour (or your time if you do it yourself) you also need to account for the immobilization time if its a work vehicle. A taxi being serviced is not generating money for example.

I will share a video of a German YouTuber, an engineer who worked at Audi, in a Formula 1 team and now has is own business:

More important than his engineering degree, he worked in Audi, so he knows how things are done. Production cars have things (at least some) very overengineered. By knowing how overengineered the cooling system was for example, he was able to reduce the car drag and have better fuel economy without compromising the reliability.

Have you ever took a sample of oil for analisys?

We are just having a nice conversation. If at the end of the day you still prefer your way I totally respect that.

 

[brundozg]

In my case 15k because:

• I am not using LL oil anymore, so recommended interval is anyhow 15k
• I had Octavia 2.0 TDI which drove over 300k km without any issues and is still driving, so I use the same interval on my newer car
• It's private car, so additional immobilization time of approx. 1h per year does not bother me much

More important than his engineering degree, he worked in Audi, so he knows how things are done.

You have a good idea for a T-shirt "Trust me, I'm an engineer work at OEM"
Could you elaborate relevance of video you shared regarding oil "science"?

We are just having a nice conversation. If at the end of the day you still prefer your way I totally respect that.

Feel free to share info which engine you have, which oil you prefer and how many miles you usually manage on your variable interval

 

[The WolfMan]

You have a good idea for a T-shirt "Trust me, I'm an engineer work at OEM"
Could you elaborate relevance of video you shared regarding oil "science"?

You could watch the videos

Regarding the first one about oil "science" I hear people saying (and "teaching") to others wrong things. It's common (at least for me) for example to hear that a 10W40 oil is an oil for 10k km oil changes and that a 5W40 oil is an oil for 15k km oil changes and with 5w30 you change your oil every 20k km. As I am sure that you know, this is totally wrong. What defines the service intervals is the engine and the manufacturer, not the type of oil used. A manufactures specifies some norms for the oil (507.00 in your case I guess) and a range of viscosities. In the most recent ones, its only one I think, 0W20. As owner you only need to fullfil these two things.

Regarding the second video, if you have time, explore some videos of him. They are very interesting, at least if you're into cars, engineering and motorsport. When he bought the car, it had 180k km and the timing belt has never been serviced before! It was supposed to be done at 120k km... The engine was not in best condition, after the timing belt was changed, the engine was much more smoother. Here you can see some form of overengineering because the belt didn't snap at 121k km.

But of course that for manufacturers price counts a lot. Sometimes decisions aren't made by engineers, they are made my managers, In modern VWs I hate to have "fluffy" door cards at the front and hard plastics at the back. I also find unacceptable that the Mk8 Golf lost the gas strut in the bonnet (introduced in the Mk4 Typ 1J) and that the glove box had a textile lining removed to be all plastic... But I guess that focus groups showed them (apparently) that owners don't care or even don't know the differences, so managers have a way to cut costs.

I prefer to focus more on the technical side of things

Feel free to share info which engine you have, which oil you prefer and how many miles you usually manage on your variable interval

It't not my car, but I have access to a 98 Passat 1.9 TDI with 245k km... Castrol Edge 5W40 with norms 505.00/505.01. With this engine there is no LL available, only the 15k/1y fixed interval and the oil is changed after 1 year because it only makes around 5k km per year.

 

[alexnoe]

but here in Portugal I see that lot of people say (without evidence) than an engine oil never lasts 30k km

Never is a strong word. The bigger problem is...

For Europeans around here, if your car is stock, why change the oil every 15k km or 1 year (fixed interval, which one occurs first) and not use the VARIABLE interval that can go up to 30k km or 2 years?

... that cars do not detect low oil quality reliably enough. For example, if you have more DPF regenerations in urban conditions, you will get more fuel into your oil. Even though cars with variable oil change interval try to estimate the consequences of this, they can't really measure it. Ideally, you take a sample of your oil and have it analyzed after 15.000 km. Maybe the analysis shows that you can indeed go another 15.000 km. However, most drivers will not be willing to pay that on top of the oil change if the analysis shows that they need an oil change.

 

[Uwe]

However, most drivers will not be willing to pay that on top of the oil change if the analysis shows that they need an oil change.

How much does a thorough oil analysis cost compared to just changing the oil?

-Uwe-