The oil thread

[Uwe]

You cannot use VW 50800/50900 oil in current engines that require 50400 or VW 50700 because the lubricating film of 0W20 oil is less stable at high temperatures.

One thing I find puzzling: We have what appear to be identical engines that were once specified (and presumably designed for) 504/507 oils, where around 2018 VAG changed the spec to 508/509. Did did anything in these engines actually change, or did VAG change the oil spec in order to get fractionally lower consumption/CO2 emissions, quite possibly at the expense of engine life?

This, obviously, is more important in countries without speed limit than in countries with speed limits around 70 mph.

Speed limits are by no means the only factor that affect engine loadings. You've mentioned towing as one, which I certainly agree with, but also consider just driving in the mountains, where on a long up hill grade, your engine load could be just as high at 70 mph as it would be on flat ground at 120 mph or more.

-Uwe-

 

[alexnoe]

One thing I find puzzling: We have what appear to be identical engines that were once specified (and presumably designed for) 504/507 oils, where around 2018 VAG changed the spec to 508/509. Did did anything in these engines actually change, or did VAG change the oil spec in order to get fractionally lower consumption/CO2 emissions, quite possibly at the expense of engine life?

Concerning petrol engines: it's possible that this is mainly a CO2 emission optimization.

Concerning diesel engines: VW has launched EA288 evo engines in late 2019 together with the Golf Mk8, so these are model year 2020 and newer. I did't check all engine codes, but my impression is:
- EA288 always use 50700
- EA288 evo with 85 kW and 110 kW use 50900
- EA288 evo with 147 kW uses 50700
It's simply a different engine.

 

[davisev5225]

Anecdotally, I use Liqui Moly 20232 Molygen 5W40 in my 2013 A6 Quattro Prestige 3.0T and previously used it in my 2006 A6 Avant Quattro 3.2L. The 2006 ran like a champ well through 200k miles on that oil until I sold it. New owner was cheap and used Wal-Mart oil, car started falling apart within a couple oil changes.

Unless/until I find hard evidence to the contrary, I stand by Liqui Moly because it has worked quite well for me. I do get slight oil consumption issues with it, but I change my oil at 5k miles anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[brundozg]

My 2016 Tiguan mk2 2.0TDI is using too much oil for my taste and I would like to try different oil.
Accordingly to VW user manuals, engines with DPF should be using 507 00, but those without DPF can also use 505 01.
My question is: did anyone from you guys use 505 01 (e.g. Castrol EDGE TURBO DIESEL 5W-40) with DPF engines?

edit after some research:
5W-40 (505 01) from Castrol has MB229.51 clearance, same as 5W-30LL (507 00). Specification MB229.51 is only for low SAP oils and MB cars with DPF can use that oil.
I am pondering if VW DPF can really be so sensitive in contrast to MB DPF. I would really like to switch to 5W-40 which I really liked for Skoda Octavia mk2 2.0TDI, but I am trying to find out if it will cost me a lot on the long run because of DPF...

edit2:
more about MB229.51 here, more about VW507 00 here
Comparison of sulfate ash between Castrol EDGE 5W-30 LL (0.77%wt); Castrol EDGE Turbo Diesel 5W-40 (0.8%wt) and Castrol Magnatec 5W-40 DPF (0.8%wt).
Probably because of 40wt viscosity, total produced ash will be a bit higher than of 0/5w-30 oil, but is it really such a big difference?

 

[Uwe]

but is it really such a big difference?

I doubt it. The catch is that 507 00 doesn't allow for anything heavier than a 30 weight oil, so no matter how good a 5w40 is, it can never meed the 507 00 spec. And in the end, if a heavier oil reduces the amount of oil that's being burned, you will probably end up with less ash in your DPF.

-Uwe-

 

[Eric]

I'm probably going to regret posting in an oil thread,but...
you can use the lubrizol comparison tool here:

Relative Performance Comparison Tool for Passenger Car Specifications - Engine Oil Additives - The Lubrizol Corporation

online.lubrizol.com

Handily, not only do they have an "aftertreatment compatibility" in the spider view, they also have a table with sulphated ash, phosphorous and sulfur tolerances.
While the spider graph doesn't seem to fully agree, according to the table, 229.51 is a great alternative to 507.00 as far as SAPS.
The generic ACEA C4 in addition to a MB229.3x/229.5x (which are among the best for wear protection) would also be great.

 

[brundozg]

I will try Castrol's 5W-40. It has ACEA C3, MB229.51 and VW505 01. I am very curious how it will affect the oil consumption. At least 90% km done with my car are on the highway or local roads. During highway driving oil temp is regularly around 115+-5 degree Celsius and in that range 5w-40 could be better for oil consumption. Also will track soot mass via Advanced Measuring Values

 

[Uwe]

I will try Castrol's 5W-40.

Since this is an oil thread, I'll ask: How long/far do you go between oil changes, and how much use is "too much oil for my taste"?

-Uwe-

 

[brundozg]

I change oil every 15000km and I need to add at least 2.5 liters between oil changes. If I remember correctly, once between two oil changes I was topping up even 4 liters - but it was when was living in Austria, maybe had something to do with cold climate.

 

[EuroX]

Has anyone used Cera Tec in their engine? I have some data that backs up the fact that it cuts down on oil consumption over time. While immediate results are not present over a period of 20k miles they can be rather dramatic. I also have data that tends to present the fact that using an oil other than what the dealer uses can also cut down on oil consumption.

 

[Uwe]

Has anyone used Cera Tec in their engine?

@Eric ?

I also have data that tends to present the fact that using an oil other than what the dealer uses can also cut down on oil consumption.

Not sure I understand the mechanism that would be involved there.

ETA: Somehow my brain read "Filter" into that sentence and it ain't there.

-Uwe-

 

[davisev5225]

Not sure I understand the mechanism that would be involved there.

-Uwe-

The market copy talks about coating cylinder walls and other high-friction surfaces with ceramic particles that embed themselves into the metal thereby reducing friction and, because it reduces variations in the surface of the metal, it can improve sealing, and blah... blah... blah...

It honestly sounds like snake-oil to me, but then again, I used to say that about Marvel's Mystery Oil until I actually tried it myself, so I'm fully prepared to be wrong here too.

 

[Eric]

Has anyone used Cera Tec in their engine?

I put it in the S4 around 25k miles and just now at about 55k miles. I'm not one to dump foreign substances in engine oil normally, but at the time I researched it, independant reviews seemed to say it actually works to reduce friction. Hopefully helps with timing chain wear, of which I seem to have essentially zero after 55k miles.What I found most impressive is that, if you put it in at engine oil dosages in the gearbox, the synchros stop working, more or less forever. I think that's the most glowing review of any additive you could ever find

 

[Uwe]

What I found most impressive is that, if you put it in at engine oil dosages in the gearbox, the synchros stop working, more or less forever.

Is that a first-hand experience?

-Uwe-

 

[Eric]

Ha, fortunately it is not IIRC someone who tried to be SMRT on Audizine?

 

[Uwe]

Ha, fortunately it is not IIRC someone who tried to be SMRT on Audizine?

Well, I know what it's like. At one point, I had an old 4K 5-speed rebuilt (with a Quaiffe LSD after differential failure) and the aftermarket supplier sent the wrong synchros, which we did not realize until after it was all back together and in the car for a week or two, when they slowly stopped working. I then learned to double-clutch. A few months later, I ordered the correct synchros from the dealer and two more transmission swaps later, it was finally good-to-go.

-Uwe-

 

[RGH0]

If you put an engine oil formulation in a manual gearbox the syncros will not work well either as it does not have the necessary friction characterisitics of a GL4 manual transmission oil. Whether Cera Tec improves long term charactersitics of engine oil to reduce wear and improve ring sealing probably depends on the quality of the engine oil you are using and maybe also your usage and service intervals and design chracteristics of your engine. Oil makers do huge research on their additive packages to get the right outcomes but none appear to use Cera Tec or equivalent as a standard additive in their engine oils that I am aware of including Liqui Moly who make Cera Tech except in their Molygen range of oil but in that they use a lower dosage than recommended be added to other oils.....I wonder why ???

 

[Eric]

...and that's why I didn't want to post

 

[brundozg]

yes, finally thread is starting to go in the right direction
accept the inevitable

 

[brundozg]

I changed the oil to Castrol's 5W40, will track the consumption.
I also changed the manual gearbox's oil for the first time at 133k km (82642 miles). It's 10 minute procedure and I don't see a reason not to do it every 100k km. For 3L of the Castrol transmax manual v 75W-80 I paid 60€.

Let's add some oil to the fire - what are your thoughts about changing manual gearbox's oil? Do you find it unnecessary, good, bad or do you have some other opinion?