Audi A8 D2 1999 transmission in 5th gear 17117 17114

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RichS

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Okay, Ross-Tech Audi brain trust, here you go – your insight is appreciated.
The transmission went into limp mode – directly into 5th gear upon shifting into drive.
PRND432 dash display is in relief, that is, surrounded by red, instead of being red lettering.
I can watch the measuring block trans. gear go to 1 and then immediately to 5. With brake on, engine RPM is 608, input RPM is 0.

Other contributing factors: The bottom of car was oil and antifreeze soaked after I made the sad mistake of letting a trusted shop replace my timing belt. Many leaks resulted, which I have now cleaned up. Wires were left out of mounting looms as well, that is, left loose. The car is my winter driver on salted secondary Iowa roads.
Prior to this time, the cruise control would drop out intermittently.
Trans filter and fluid changed some years back at 190,000 miles. Yes, I understand it is an old car.
It was suddenly slow to shift.
Vag-Com reads that the trans is in first, then goes directly to 5th. Car drives in 5th. Reverse works.
No leakage visible from trans
Pre-existing ABS brake error as well (Internal Control Module Memory Error) Wiring problem or death knell for module.
Battery was low - this scan is before DTC's were cleared.

Predominant error codes, which clear until the car is moved:

17117 - Gear 3 P0733 - 35-00 - Incorrect Ratio
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring P0730 - 35-00 - Incorrect Gear Ratio
18032 - MIL Request Signal Active (Check TCM for errors too!) P1624 - 35-00 –
17087 - Brake Switch (F) P0703 - 35-00 - Electrical Malfunction (My note: This is a pre-set malfunction which is erased if the brake switch is activated).
My pre-existing ABS error: 65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Full scan below.

Code:
Wednesday,30,November,2022,11:36:05:29481
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 22.3.0.1 (x64)
Data version: 20220225 DS336.1
www.Ross-Tech.com


Mileage: 311060km-193283mi   Repair Order: A8 11-30-2022 POST ASSY PRE CLEAR



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 4D - Audi A8 D2 (1994 > 2003)
Scan: 25 01 03 08 11 15 16 17 18 35 37 45 55 56 57 65 67 75 76 77
          02
 
   Mileage: 311060km-193283miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 907 557 M
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V  MOTR AT D02
   Coding: 01273
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 366300C11234543F28-4AE8

1 Fault Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
            P1602 - 35-10 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 614 111 M
   Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D31
   Shop #: BB 24302
   VCID: 285FDEB9C88032CFAA-5122

1 Fault Found:
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
            35-10 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 820 043 K
   Component: D2-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT D05
   Coding: 00180
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 2447CA89B4A8D6AF86-2574

1 Fault Found:
00801 - A/C Refrigerant High Pressure Switch (F118)
            30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 4D0-959-655-AI7.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 959 655 H
   Component: Airbag 7 Audi      050C
   Coding: 00225
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 377D0DC5153EAD3733-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 4D0-919-033-MYW.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 919 035 P
   Component: D2-KOMBIINSTRUMENT  D53
   Coding: 00283
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 336539D5014641170F-5074

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels:. 8D0-862-257.clb
   Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
   Component: CV-Pump             D06
   Coding: 16140
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 408F661940F0EA8F82-4ECE

3 Faults Found:
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
            35-00 - -
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
            35-00 - -
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
            35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
   Part No: 8L0 951 173
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    D04
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 6ED3E8A12AE42CFF20-4B4C

1 Fault Found:
01380 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Rear Left
            35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 907 357
   Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER  D001
   Coding: 00008
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 65C1978DFF12EFA751-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 035 186 B
   Component:  Radio              D03
   VCID: 2149C39DABBAC387ED-4B00

No Faults Found
  or DTCs not supported by controller
  or a communication error occurred

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01L-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 927 156 BH
   Component: AG5 01L 4.2l4V  USA 1313
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 70EFF6D930D03A0F32-5122

2 Faults Found:
17117 - Gear 3
            P0733 - 35-00 - Incorrect Ratio
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring
            P0730 - 35-00 - Incorrect Gear Ratio

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:58)--------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 03: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 08: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 15: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 17: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 35: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 45: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 55: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 02: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Code:
Chassis Type: 4D - Audi A8 D2 (1994 > 2003)
Scan: 25 01 03 08 11 15 16 17 18 35 37 45 55 56 57 65 67 75 76 77
          02
 
   Mileage: 311060km-193283miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 907 557 M
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V  MOTR AT D02
   Coding: 01273
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 366300C11234543F28-4B00

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 614 111 M
   Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D31
   Shop #: BB 24302
   VCID: 285FDEB9C88032CFAA-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 820 043 K
   Component: D2-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT D05
   Coding: 00180
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 2447CA89B4A8D6AF86-256C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 4D0-959-655-AI7.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 959 655 H
   Component: Airbag 7 Audi      050C
   Coding: 00225
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 377D0DC5153EAD3733-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 4D0-919-033-MYW.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 919 035 P
   Component: D2-KOMBIINSTRUMENT  D53
   Coding: 00283
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 336539D5014641170F-5058

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels:. 8D0-862-257.clb
   Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
   Component: CV-Pump             D06
   Coding: 16140
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 408F661940F0EA8F82-4EEA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
   Part No: 8L0 951 173
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    D04
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 6ED3E8A12AE42CFF20-4B32

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 907 357
   Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER  D001
   Coding: 00008
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 65C1978DFF12EFA751-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels:
   VCID: 55A1A74DAC727F27C1-4B00
   Note: Excessive Comm Errors


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01L-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 927 156 BH
   Component: AG5 01L 4.2l4V  USA 1313
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 70EFF6D930D03A0F32-5122

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:13)--------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Code:
Chassis Type: 4D - Audi A8 D2 (1994 > 2003)
Scan: 25 01 03 08 11 15 16 17 18 35 37 45 55 56 57 65 67 75 76 77
          02
 
   Mileage: 311060km-193283miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 907 557 M
   Component: 4.2L V8/4V  MOTR AT D02
   Coding: 01273
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 366300C11234543F28-4AE8

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 614 111 M
   Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D31
   Shop #: BB 24302
   VCID: 285FDEB9C88032CFAA-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 4D0 820 043 K
   Component: D2-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT D05
   Coding: 00180
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 2447CA89B4A8D6AF86-256C

1 Fault Found:
00801 - A/C Refrigerant High Pressure Switch (F118)
            30-00 - Open or Short to Plus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 4D0-959-655-AI7.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 959 655 H
   Component: Airbag 7 Audi      050C
   Coding: 00225
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 377D0DC5153EAD3733-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 4D0-919-033-MYW.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 919 035 P
   Component: D2-KOMBIINSTRUMENT  D53
   Coding: 00283
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 336539D5014641170F-5074

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels:. 8D0-862-257.clb
   Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
   Component: CV-Pump             D06
   Coding: 16140
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 408F661940F0EA8F82-4EEA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
   Part No: 8L0 951 173
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    D04
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 6ED3E8A12AE42CFF20-4B4C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 907 357
   Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER  D001
   Coding: 00008
   Shop #: WSC 02324
   VCID: 65C1978DFF12EFA751-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 035 186 B
   Component:  Radio              D03
   Coding: 00117
   Shop #: WSC 00001
   VCID: 2149C39DABBAC387ED-4B00

No Faults Found
  or DTCs not supported by controller
  or a communication error occurred

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01L-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 4D0 927 156 BH
   Component: AG5 01L 4.2l4V  USA 1313
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 70EFF6D930D03A0F32-515E

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:46)--------------------------


My plan so far: Check the F125 switch wiring and connector. Thoughts? Condolences? Here is a reference to the F125 switch: http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/auto_transmission/f125switchreplace.html

And, hoping this obituary is premature:

This car, nicknamed Audrey by my wife, has had sooo many hail marys. The transmission that stopped shifting smoothly years ago, but came back after a fluid change and filter (yes, the magnet had 1 CC of metal dust). The cracked block that I watched drip antifreeze from inside the block, under a piston, into the oil pan when coolant was pressurized – the antifreeze boiled off in the summer, but collected in the winter; the oil never reached antifreeze, but the antifreeze dripped into oil! (Water glass fixed that many years ago – it held!) The ABS module replacement. The plugged body drains carrying a gallon of water inside the AC center duct, sloshing mysteriously. The oil cooler plastic pipe replacement. The air conditioning condenser replacement after the shop boogered it. And the problem that it came with originally – a leaky rear transaxle seal fixed without removing the transaxle. All four CV boots. Several brake calipers. Many pads. New tires and polished wheels, all paint removed, buffed to look like chrome, pristine. This light aluminum rocket could pass anything with a tap of the pedal, hug any curve (given the new upper and lower aluminum control arms) and claw through the Iowa snow and ice to get me home. It carried small cousins, sleeping soundly, on long trips. My then-toddler daughter scratched her initials in the door grips. But best of all, this car drove me to purchase Ross-tech Vag-com. My fellow mechanical engineers and controls gurus saw the parallels to the engineering work we do. It’s just a big, fun puzzle.
 
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   #2  

Uwe

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Those "Incorrect Ratio" faults indicate one of two things: Either major slippage somewhere in the transmission (not at all inconceivable at almost 200,000 miles) or a bad reading from one of the speed sensors. My guess is the former, but let's eliminate the latter.

With brake on, engine RPM is 608, input RPM is 0.
I think the transmission input speed sensor is at the input to the tranmission itself, in other words past the torque converter, but I'm not 100% certain about that.

Check both input and output RPM in MVB 001 while driving the car. Or put the car on a lift or jack-stands so the wheels and the transmission can spin. If input rpm stays at zero while the car/wheels are moving then that would explain much.

-Uwe-
 
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Jef

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IMHO, if you are crazy lucky, a valve body would fix it... but in reality... I think you are better off with a rebuilt trans that offers some degree of a warranty.
 
   #4  

RichS

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Those "Incorrect Ratio" faults indicate one of two things: Either major slippage somewhere in the transmission (not at all inconceivable at almost 200,000 miles) or a bad reading from one of the speed sensors. My guess is the former, but let's eliminate the latter.


I think the transmission input speed sensor is at the input to the tranmission itself, in other words past the torque converter, but I'm not 100% certain about that.

Check both input and output RPM in MVB 001 while driving the car. Or put the car on a lift or jack-stands so the wheels and the transmission can spin. If input rpm stays at zero while the car/wheels are moving then that would explain much.

-Uwe-
Uwe, I'll do exactly that, by driving the car, and report back.

I'll also look to see if there is a way to test the neutral safety switch upon removal - before I buy one.

I had a great conversation with Mike Barkis of ECS Tuning as well. The F125 neutral safety switch switch is still available, it's pricey. $453 . Is there a test procedure or a logic that I can check with a VO meter for this switch? i have yet to do my homework here in the wiring diagrams in Bentley. Is there a test in the Adaptation / drivetrain menu?

ECS is of course a big fan of Ross-tech Vag-Com.

Notes:

G195 sensor speed (speedometer), G182 sensor speed still available

IMHO, if you are crazy lucky, a valve body would fix it... but in reality... I think you are better off with a rebuilt trans that offers some degree of a warranty.
I have been sooooo lucky to date. Who knew sodium silicate (water glass) could fix a pinhole coolant leak from an aluminum block? But failing in that, does anyone have a source for an 01L transmission? I see ZF no longer markets rebuilds.
 
   #5  

RichS

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Anyone know how transmission connector T16B, the 16 pin plug into the transmission sump, comes off? All these connectors are old, and I don't want to break it. It's different than other connectors on the car.

I'm going through the wiring harness and the F125 switch - Ross-tech VCDS offers a way to troubleshoot the F125 sender. Display group 004 zone 3 details the shift position (PRND432) and the intermediate position through a 4 digit long binary listing. My F125 switch appears OK.

In checking the connector at the TCU, the resistance of the G182 speed sensor is off. The sensor is located on rear / top of valve body, two screws hold it in, inside the transmission. Bentley says the G182 transmission vehicle speed sensor has an acceptable range of 230-300 ohms. Mine shows resistance of 28.2 ohms from TCU connector pins 16 to 44. Pins 5 and 6 on connector T16b, transmission harness to side of transmission are to the sensor. I have already checked from the TCU connector under the hood. Need to check at the transmission end of the harness at T16b, pins 5-6...without breaking the connector.

Checking everything else that I can before I put the car on the ground again.

Geez VCDS is fun. Nowhere in the other blogs did they mention using it to check F125 switch operation. This switch is easily a 5 hour job +150$, so I'm glad Ross-Tech Vag-Com can test it.
 
   #6  

RichS

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Next up after that is the driving test per Uwe to compare input / output RPM while in motion.
 
   #7  

RichS

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Here is a result from the test drive per Uwe's suggestion. Geez I love the diagnostic capabilities of VCDS. Here I have plotted the engine RPM, trans input RPM, trans output RPM (proportional to speed), transmission gear and all the solenoid activations and PC valve currents against time. I did this as the transmission entered limp mode. In this case, it went directly to 5th gear when throttle was applied. Because the line colors are difficult to see, I included a narrative.




I also caught the transmission hunting between 2nd and 3rd before it went into limp mode, that is more interesting. I'll work on getting a more clear graph. I don't have all the PC or solenoids in this one. The new error that popped up here was 17116 - Gear 2 P0732 - 35-00 - Incorrect Ratio.



[MEDIA=imgur]JHaYo0M[/MEDIA]

Other observations:

The G182 sensor (post torque converter) seems to have a normal resistance now. I could have been mistaken in my earlier measurement. I re-checked resistances at the 88 pin TCU connector using the Bentley list and they were all normal. I cleaned the F125 and transmission connectors - they were full of oil, likely from previous leaks.

Ran the Bentley final diagnosis test through VCDS. I could hear the three solenoid switch valves N88, N89 and N90, the shift solenoid N110, but could not hear the 5 pressure regulating valves N215, N216, N217,N218, and N233. Bentley says these are difficult to hear, but my ear was right next to the pan.

I have not yet checked transmission fluid level, but I have not observed any leaks. It requires a getting the car exactly level, and at the right temperature, something I can't easily do in my shop. But that's next.

Along the way, I had a terrific gracious conversation with Nat Wentworth of Eriksson Industries. He patiently explained the process they apply in rebuilding - and welding the cracks in - valve bodies for this car. He really knows the engineering behind these transmissions, and he has access to the parts that work. Nat, by the way, is a mechanical engineer with an obvious passion for these transmissions.

In checking my notes, this car did exhibit the cruise dropping out for no reason I could see, until the cruise hardly worked, long before the transmission limped.

I disconnected the malfunctioning ABS; no change was seen. The ABS exhibits error 65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error at about 5 mph. I'll try adapting it but methinks it's toast.
I seem to be having trouble inserting these images - I'll work on that.
 
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   #8  

RichS

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More data from VCDS, this time with all the solenoids. I got the transmission to function for 52 seconds, hunting through gears 1-4 before it went into limp mode. I'd love to know if this could possibly be a valve body issue / crack. Just one solenoid seems off. I wonder how far apart the input RPM's should be from the engine RPM's.

3260TLi.jpg


Cheers.

keywords:
AUDI A8 D2 1999 193K MILES, TRANSMISSION - HUNTING 2nd-3rd-4th, TRANSITION TO LIMP MODE
ERROR CODES
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring P0730 - 35-00 - Incorrect Gear Ratio
17116 - Gear 2 P0732 - 35-00 - Incorrect Ratio
17117 - Gear 3 P0733 - 35-00 - Incorrect Ratio
valve body
01L transmission
 
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